Router Sled On Rails

[Jon Banquer]

Does anyone sell a tool like this that can easily be setup and then knocked down and stored? I have a bunch of hard maple tops I would like to maintain but no dedicated area for this. I'm thinking I would like to setup up a rig like this outside on a Festool MFT-3.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

[iSawitFirst]

Hmmmm..Never seen such an animal. Not a bad idea, though.

I've seen plenty of shop-made sleds though. Not hard to make.

[Onboard]

Here are some Woodhaven planing sleds. Looks like something you could stow when not in use. You can also go to Woodhaven’s site here.

[Jon Banquer]

Here are some Woodhaven planing sleds. Looks like something you could stow when not in use. You can also go to Woodhaven’s site here.

Looks like this setup is designed to cut across the grain. I'm very much a newbie when it comes to wood but I'm thinking that it would be much better to cut with the grain? Also, when I look at this fixture it's very hard for me not to look at it using a machinists perspective. When I do look at it this way it's not the kind of quality I'm use to when I make tooling and fixtures at work or when I look at / purchase Festool stuff. I guess I'll have to work on that.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

[Jon Banquer]

Hmmmm..Never seen such an animal. Not a bad idea, though.

I've seen plenty of shop-made sleds though. Not hard to make.

Got the idea from watching episode six: "The Jointers Jumpin".

I spent a lot of time downloading all the Wood Whisperer episodes with the intention of viewing all of them and trying to get as much as I can out of them.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

[Lawrence Brown]

Yeah, that's actually a fairly common way of flattening a bench top: couple of pipes or other parallels running the length of the top, then you progressively move a sled like this down the pipes making passes to flatten it.

[Onboard]

Looks like this setup is designed to cut across the grain. I'm very much a newbie when it comes to wood but I'm thinking that it would be much better to cut with the grain? Also, when I look at this fixture it's very hard for me not to look at it using a machinists perspective. When I do look at it this way it's not the kind of quality I'm use to when I make tooling and fixtures at work or when I look at / purchase Festool stuff. I guess I'll have to work on that.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

Jon, since you wanted a router sled which you could purchase, I looked for that. It's the only one I could find initially. Later I did find this forum post which may be more of what you’re looking for since it's a Festool router sled. As far as the quality of the Woodhaven planing sleds, it is always nice if user reviews are available. Maybe it’s just me, but after looking at some additional views of the Woodhaven router sled on their site, it looked well constructed, but that’s just looking at a picture.

As you know, if you look at a router sled in use, you’ll see two long rails and a cross set of rails that the router sits on (the router carrier) which slides over the surface of the wood. The direction of the router is typically cross grain although there are exceptions.

[Jon Banquer]

As you know, if you look at a router sled in use, you’ll see two long rails and a cross set of rails that the router sits on (the router carrier) which slides over the surface of the wood. The direction of the router is typically cross grain although there are exceptions.

A planer cuts the wood with the grain so I guess that's where I decided this was the correct approach to plaining. Perhaps I'm wrong.

If I'm going to use a random orbital sander after I use the router/planer maybe it makes no difference if the grain gets cross cut?

I like the idea of the setup as it is shown in your link. I think I would purchase the rails and then make the unit that the router sits in out of 6061-T6 or Mic6 / K100 tooling plate as the sheet metal tray doesn't sit well with me. Knowing how I approach things I'd probably go the extra step and have it hard coat anodized although I doubt it would have any benefit other then cosmetic.

Certainly what you linked to is very helpful to me. Thank you so much for making the effort.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

[Lawrence Brown]

As far as the cutting direction goes, since a router bit is round, the part of the bit that's actually doing the cutting is in the direction of travel, which means that most of the cutting is being done with the grain, same as a planer (the exact amount depends on how much overlap between passes.

If you were to move the router in the direction of the grain, most of the cut would be across the grain, similar to if you were trying to plane end grain, which is evidently what you're saying you don't want.

The cutting arc of a planer is very shallow, and you are cutting tangentially to it's surface, therefore it's more-or-less straight, whereas the cutting path of a router bit, when cutting to full width, is circular. You are cutting across it's diameter, not across it's tangent. So frankly, I would guess there wouldn't be a whole lot of difference in this case, since the intent is to remove the whole layer anyway. Either way should get you a flat surface. The only thing to really worry about would be chip-out on the very edges of the top.

That's my theory anyway. Haven't tested it, but I think I got the geometry right.

[Onboard]

A planer cuts the wood with the grain so I guess that's where I decided this was the correct approach to plaining. Perhaps I'm wrong.

If I'm going to use a random orbital sander after I use the router/planer maybe it makes no difference if the grain gets cross cut?

I like the idea of the setup as it is shown in your link. I think I would purchase the rails and then make the unit that the router sits in out of 6061-T6 or Mic6 / K100 tooling plate as the sheet metal tray doesn't sit well with me. Knowing how I approach things I'd probably go the extra step and have it hard coat anodized although I doubt it would have any benefit other then cosmetic.

Certainly what you linked to is very helpful to me. Thank you so much for making the effort.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

You're welcome Jon. I envy your machine shop skills and the ability to modify something existing. You're right about the planer. The router as you know has a rotating circular bit that cannot remove any more wood than the diameter of the bit so it has to remove wood in multiple passes unlike a planer which can remove wood from the entire surface in one pass. But, a router sled allows removing and flattening a large surface which would not fit in a planer. Just about every article or forum post you read on flattening a board or table / bench top with a router sled talks about the small ridges left by the router bit. Usually a hand plane or a card scraper and ROS will flatten the ridges. You sound inventive so it will be interesting to hear about the set up you come up with.

[PaulMarcel]

"Planar" router bits or other straight bits always leave ridges that drive me nuts. I picked up a bowl bit later and used it on my next project where I needed to plane a large surface with a router and was greatly impressed with the resulting surface.

Here's the Eagle America bit:

The bottom of the bit is flat but the edges are curved. It seems like it doesn't tear out as much as it moves and certainly somewhat overlapping the passes makes for a pretty smooth finish (yes, some work needed). Also the bit comes in nicer diameters for planing.

While looking this up, I noticed this bit is on sale. I think the sale ends this week.

[Onboard]

Trying to explain this stuff is awkward. I certainly am not an expert here. I do know that the router carrier (in the examples I've seen) moves across the width of the board or boards which would be cross grain with grain direction being along the length of the board or 90 degrees to the direction of router travel. I can also see that the rotating bit is always cutting constantly with and against the grain while it travels across the board or (in my mind) cross grain. A planer cutting blade is rotating 90 degrees from the axis of the router bit and is making a shearing cut all the way across the width of the board while the board is being fed with the grain through the planer. I'm not saying I'm correct, but that's how it lines up in my thinking. I'm open to correction since I'm here to learn.

By the way, I’ve never dialoged this much in a post since I started with The Wood Whisperer community over a year ago. I feel like I’m going too far out on a limb here.

As far as the cutting direction goes, since a router bit is round, the part of the bit that's actually doing the cutting is in the direction of travel, which means that most of the cutting is being done with the grain, same as a planer (the exact amount depends on how much overlap between passes.

If you were to move the router in the direction of the grain, most of the cut would be across the grain, similar to if you were trying to plane end grain, which is evidently what you're saying you don't want.

The cutting arc of a planer is very shallow, and you are cutting tangentially to it's surface, therefore it's more-or-less straight, whereas the cutting path of a router bit, when cutting to full width, is circular. You are cutting across it's diameter, not across it's tangent. So frankly, I would guess there wouldn't be a whole lot of difference in this case, since the intent is to remove the whole layer anyway. Either way should get you a flat surface. The only thing to really worry about would be chip-out on the very edges of the top.

That's my theory anyway. Haven't tested it, but I think I got the geometry right.

That's great Paul. Valuable information for those wanting to use a router sled. Thanks much.

"Planar" router bits or other straight bits always leave ridges that drive me nuts. I picked up a bowl bit later and used it on my next project where I needed to plane a large surface with a router and was greatly impressed with the resulting surface.

Here's the Eagle America bit:

The bottom of the bit is flat but the edges are curved. It seems like it doesn't tear out as much as it moves and certainly somewhat overlapping the passes makes for a pretty smooth finish (yes, some work needed). Also the bit comes in nicer diameters for planing.

While looking this up, I noticed this bit is on sale. I think the sale ends this week.

[Jon Banquer]

As far as the cutting direction goes, since a router bit is round, the part of the bit that's actually doing the cutting is in the direction of travel, which means that most of the cutting is being done with the grain, same as a planer (the exact amount depends on how much overlap between passes.

If you were to move the router in the direction of the grain, most of the cut would be across the grain, similar to if you were trying to plane end grain, which is evidently what you're saying you don't want.

The cutting arc of a planer is very shallow, and you are cutting tangentially to it's surface, therefore it's more-or-less straight, whereas the cutting path of a router bit, when cutting to full width, is circular. You are cutting across it's diameter, not across it's tangent. So frankly, I would guess there wouldn't be a whole lot of difference in this case, since the intent is to remove the whole layer anyway. Either way should get you a flat surface. The only thing to really worry about would be chip-out on the very edges of the top.

That's my theory anyway. Haven't tested it, but I think I got the geometry right.

I agree that you have it right. Thanks for the logic!

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

[Jon Banquer]

You're welcome Jon. I envy your machine shop skills and the ability to modify something existing. You're right about the planer. The router as you know has a rotating circular bit that cannot remove any more wood than the diameter of the bit so it has to remove wood in multiple passes unlike a planer which can remove wood from the entire surface in one pass. But, a router sled allows removing and flattening a large surface which would not fit in a planer. Just about every article or forum post you read on flattening a board or table / bench top with a router sled talks about the small ridges left by the router bit. Usually a hand plane or a card scraper and ROS will flatten the ridges. You sound inventive so it will be interesting to hear about the set up you come up with.

Thanks!

There is a guy on the west side of Phoenix, AZ who has created very affordable videos that are based on using the small, cheap Chinese mini mill and lathe that Harbor Freight sells. If you decide that machine shop skills would help you I'd be more than happy to give you (or anyone else) the link. I've seen his videos. If his vidoes were available when I started in the trade I would have saved myself a lot of time. He's a very gifted teacher and everything he teaches can be applied to larger manual machines.

Jon Banquer

San Diego

[PaulMarcel]

ooh, what's up with all the skillz being on the west side of Phoenix?! There's a talented woodworker waaaaay out on the west side of Phoenix who produces affordable videos for woodworking. Marc's there, too

I'd love the name and link for the milling videos. I'm certain others would, too.

[Jon Banquer]

ooh, what's up with all the skillz being on the west side of Phoenix?! There's a talented woodworker waaaaay out on the west side of Phoenix who produces affordable videos for woodworking. Marc's there, too

I'd love the name and link for the milling videos. I'm certain others would, too.

I lived in Phoenix for 7 years and worked as a CNC machinist / CADCAM programmer before moving to San Diego.

Here is the link:

http://www.swarfrat.com/

Even after being a machinist for 15 years I picked up quite a few tips from Lex's videos. One area I picked up quite a few tips was on rotary tables because when I got into the trade in 1993 CNC had pretty much relegated rotary tables to secondary ops so I never did any contour work with a rotary table. The other area I learned quite bit was on repair, maintenance and tuning of the mini mill and mini lathe.

Jon Banquer

San Diego, CA

[Onboard]

Jonathan, I was going to swing back around to this post and tell you I would like the link to the milling videos, but it looks like Paul beat me to it. Thanks very much for the link.