Delta going out of business?

[Fbenkautz]

I am looking at Cabinet saws and, for me, the Unisaw beats all I have looked at. 

I noticed Woodcraft no longer handles the Unisaw. 

I am reading rumors Delta is going out of business?

They no longer make shapers, as I understand also. 

Any input on this?

 

[dwacker]

Delta has been the red headed step child of the tool industry for a long time. B&D dumped them last year and now they are in the sack with the holders of Ryobi. Its anyones guess what will happen. My little brother is an engineer for Ryobi. I can ask him what is going on but they tend to keep everything fairly tight lipped.

Personaly I wouldnt invest in a Delta tool at this time.

Don

[CessnaPilotBarry]

My local dealers have little to no Delta stock on the floors.

 

I've bought two Delta machines in the last 10 years, an X5 bandsaw, and a DJ-20, and both arrived with missing parts.  Once they were usable, I've been happy, but it was not fun trying to get them whole.  In the case of the bandsaw, they kept sending me the wrong parts! 

 

In both cases, the folks at Delta weren't all that nice to deal with, either.  This is odd for me, because I have a long track record of treating customer service people very well, and getting GREAT service from most all who I deal with.

 

I wish you well...

[Fbenkautz]

Thanks for the replies. 

I have looked at the Sawstop, but don't like the politics involved. 

I have also looked at PM, but not impressed. The Laguna dovetail platinum saw is a good product. 

I own a Laguna 14SE bandsaw, which I bought from Torbin Helshoj at a WW show. 

I hate to give up on the Unisaw, but perhaps the handwriting is on the wall. 

Anyone have good luck with Shop Fox?

[Eric.]

If you're gonna plunk down Unisaw money, just get the Sawstop...screw the politics, it's a great saw.  Look at Grizzly if you wanna save a few beans and still get a good saw.

[CessnaPilotBarry]

No experience here with Shop Fox...

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything SawStop does, but after using a few examples, I did like the saw and mechanism enough to buy one.  I'm a "don't cut off my fingers to spite my nose" type of guy.

 

I had a General 650, it was a great saw.  have you checked one out?

[dwacker]

Thanks for the replies. 

I have looked at the Sawstop, but don't like the politics involved. 

I have also looked at PM, but not impressed. The Laguna dovetail platinum saw is a good product. 

I own a Laguna 14SE bandsaw, which I bought from Torbin Helshoj at a WW show. 

I hate to give up on the Unisaw, but perhaps the handwriting is on the wall. 

Anyone have good luck with Shop Fox?

All the saws you comparing all come out of the same factory with small differences. The shop fox and laguna being the lesser quality of the bunch and the PM 2k and SS industrial being more equal.

Don

[Sac]

If you're gonna plunk down Unisaw money, just get the Sawstop...screw the politics, it's a great saw.  Look at Grizzly if you wanna save a few beans and still get a good saw.

 

I would have to agree with this.  It is a great saw with a feature that no other saw can touch.  In my opinion, worth the money.

[Bobby Slack]

If you are doing research, you should also look at General, I hear great stories about their service.

[Rick A McQuay]

I very much doubt Delta is going out of business. Someone is going around woodworking sites posting this.

[CessnaPilotBarry]

McQ...

 

My local dealers make funny faces when I ask "where's all the Delta stuff?  "Offline"... in person.   I've been dealing with some of these folks for 20 years, and they so look like they WANT to say something.  Crap, I made my first purchase from one of them in 1986, and now he's a busy web retailer, as well as a multi-floor brick and mortar.

 

I don't think it's an issue with capitalization or sales with these specific retailers, as they are quite well stocked with PM, Jet, General, SawStop, DeWalt, etc...

[dwacker]

I very much doubt Delta is going out of business. Someone is going around woodworking sites posting this.

Delta as we knew it was gone in 09 when Stanley bought BD and ran the brand into the cheap import market. Delta is in fact gone and is now delta power equipment. They are now a new company with a new facility. They have only been in production a few months thus why you won't see store shelves full. You won't see them anytime soon at big box stores. Stanley has that spot for now. What they actually put out is anyone's guess. The whole US made unisaw is and has been deceiving for years just like US made toyotas. US assembled not US made.

[CT Proctor]

Don is correct, Stanley B&D sold Delta to a company in Taiwan in 2011. Stanley B&D still owns PC and Dewalt.

[Boatworks Today]

I bought a PM2K a little over a year ago (5HP model) and use it almost daily.  FWIW there isn't anything that I am unhappy about.  It's very heavy which makes it stable and smooth.  The machining is spot on and is about as accurate as it gets.  It's certainly not the best looking saw (no fancy logo's, stickers, plastic highlights, etc) but I didn't buy it for looks  

 

My planer and jointer are Delta X5 and although they run fairly well now, there are a lot of things that I am disappointed with.  Cheap hardware (screws, bolts, etc they snapped with only minor turning pressure), machined threads were not clean or accurate, plastic knobs for adjustment which have since snapped from use, missing parts, etc..  Eventually all my delta stuff will be pawned off to my brother and replaced with Gold.. 

 

Whichever saw you decide to go with you'll be very happy.  Stick with the well known brands.  As Don mentioned most of the quality saws are being built by the same people.  The only minor difference may be the quality of the finish materials used (plastic details versus metal) but this is typically reflected in the price tag.  I think tools are definitely something that you get what you pay for.. 

[Rick A McQuay]

McQ...

 

My local dealers make funny faces when I ask "where's all the Delta stuff?  "Offline"... in person.   I've been dealing with some of these folks for 20 years, and they so look like they WANT to say something.  Crap, I made my first purchase from one of them in 1986, and now he's a busy web retailer, as well as a multi-floor brick and mortar.

 

I don't think it's an issue with capitalization or sales with these specific retailers, as they are quite well stocked with PM, Jet, General, SawStop, DeWalt, etc...

 

If there were problems in the company the resellers wouldn't know anymore than Joe Sixpack. The company changed hands and the entire distribution chain must be renegotiated. They are also seeking new parts suppliers and have admitted the one's being manufactured under B&D were poor quality. They've kept the Unisaw in the states (not just assembled) which is good. We should be supporting our own manufacturing not acting giddy at the prospect of them failing.

 

As for Woodcraft not carrying Delta, my local only sells Powermatic lathes, Jet drill presses, and Sawstop saws; but their demo lathe is a Delta 46-460.

[dwacker]

If there were problems in the company the resellers wouldn't know anymore than Joe Sixpack. The company changed hands and the entire distribution chain must be renegotiated. They are also seeking new parts suppliers and have admitted the one's being manufactured under B&D were poor quality. They've kept the Unisaw in the states (not just assembled) which is good. We should be supporting our own manufacturing not acting giddy at the prospect of them failing.

As for Woodcraft not carrying Delta, my local only sells Powermatic lathes, Jet drill presses, and Sawstop saws; but their demo lathe is a Delta 46-460.

They have not had a casting facility in the US since Rockwell. Rockwell stopped casting new designs after the war which is where delta really made their money making machinery and weapons for the US. Under Pentair They used existing casting to make new machines. When BD took over the castings were shipped over seas and the old pentair facility was closed.

The new facility has only been opened a few months not near long enough to resupply the US.

Don

[ChetlovesMer]

"I have looked at the Sawstop, but don't like the politics involved."

 

Okay, I know I’m the lone ranger here, but I’m going to
defend Steve Gass. Every website and forum all say horrible things about the guy.
I hear over and over how “He’s trying to force us all to spend thousands of
dollars just to line his own pocket”… or “He’s trying to legislate us into
giving up the hobby we love!” … or “He sacrifices puppies to the moon gods late
at night while dancing around ancient idols!” … Okay, I made that last one up.

 

Anyway, I met the guy twice. And I have to say he seems like
a very reasonable nice guy. To me his story is very similar to Preston Tucker.
He’s come up with what he thought was a very good idea and an idea that he
thought the industry would embrace. But to his shock they not only told him “NO”,
but “Hell NO, and I never what to see you or your technology around any of my
customers EVER!”

 

For those of you who say he’s trying to use politics to sell
his product, don’t forget it was the Deltas and the Powermatics, and the Ridgid
Tools of the world who originally tried to block him.  When he originally tried to show off his idea
at woodworking shows the big boys banned together and blocked him. Stating they
would not participate in any show he was allowed to display at. Once he came
out with a product, The Big Boys told their dealers and distributors that if
they sold SawStop they would not be allowed to carry their product. There’s a
store near me that confirmed to me that up until only about 2 years ago they
could NOT carry SawStop without jeopardizing contracts with at least 2 other
major cabinet saw manufacturers. (I’m pretty sure one of which was Delta.)

So although I don’t advocate and eye for an eye or a finger
for a finger so to speak, If you want to talk politics, to that I say Gass did
not cast the first stone. When Gass came up with a better mousetrap the big
boys certainly did not think about how this could help woodworkers in general
and their customers specifically, they starting lawyering up and covering their
assets.

 

So I know I’m like the only person on Earth who defends this
guy. Maybe I’m biased because I absolutely love my SS Industrial Cabinet Saw.
(And oh yes, I’ve had a finger saved.) I’m just saying before you cast stones
at the guy, think about how you might act if you had so many doors slammed hard
in your face.

 

[TheFatBaron]

Also, let's make something clear on "made in" vs "assembled in" labeling: If something is labeled as "made in [Country A]" it must contain a significant degree of raw manufacturing in [Country A]. It cannot, by law, be what's considered a "screwdriver" assembly. So if you get a car, saw or computer that's called "made in [Country A]"... well, they did more than just bolt it together.

[Rick A McQuay]

They have not had a casting facility in the US since Rockwell. Rockwell stopped casting new designs after the war which is where delta really made their money making machinery and weapons for the US. Under Pentair They used existing casting to make new machines. When BD took over the castings were shipped over seas and the old pentair facility was closed.

The new facility has only been opened a few months not near long enough to resupply the US.

Don

 

The plant was scheduled to open by summer of 2011, did that not happen? 

[CessnaPilotBarry]

 

 

"ITo me his story is very similar to Preston Tucker.

He’s come up with what he thought was a very good idea and an idea that he

thought the industry would embrace. But to his shock they not only told him “NO”,

but “Hell NO, and I never what to see you or your technology around any of my

customers EVER!”

 

That's a really interesting parallel I've not seen before.

 

Nicely stated...

[dwacker]

The plant was scheduled to open by summer of 2011, did that not happen? 

Plants dont mean product production. They still have to get all the overseas partners on board to make the parts.

Don

[dwacker]

Also, let's make something clear on "made in" vs "assembled in" labeling: If something is labeled as "made in [Country A]" it must contain a significant degree of raw manufacturing in [Country A]. It cannot, by law, be what's considered a "screwdriver" assembly. So if you get a car, saw or computer that's called "made in [Country A]"... well, they did more than just bolt it together.

Exactly why nobody really makes those claims outright. The FTC would be all over them. Delta doesnt make the claim either, consumers see the flag and assume. They have disclaimed it for many years. The unisaw is made in the usa "with foreign and domestic components" Delta's wording. Its not a car or a textile product so they dont have to disclose how much is done here or there, they can just let you decide that for yourself.

Don

[CessnaPilotBarry]

Woodworking and bicycling use similar "Made in USA" proclamations:

 

 

[dwacker]

Exactly and with that they are under no obligation to use any certain amount of US made prducts. They changed the label many years ago when the casting and large parts moved overseas and they became more of an assembly plant.

Don

[Kenny McCarty]

I recently bought a unisaw and have been very happy with it...there was nothing cheap about any of the construction....only complaint was that the extension table had a slight bow to it...but it is made of wood so it was to be expected and does not effect the quality of cut.  It is a very nicely designed saw.