Delta going out of business?

[dwacker]

I recently bought a unisaw and have been very happy with it...there was nothing cheap about any of the construction....only complaint was that the extension table had a slight bow to it...but it is made of wood so it was to be expected and does not effect the quality of cut.  It is a very nicely designed saw.

I dont think anyone is knocking the unisaw. It used to be you either bought a unisaw or a PM and everything else was average. Now days the playing field is pretty level with only minor differences and hickups.

The whole SS thing is really just politics. Gass is a lawyer and he tried to force his product on the US and failed. Some claim that the industry shunned him and that was unfair. Maybe but thats business, brand exclusivity is standard business practice and always has been, legislation is pure politics and a legal strategy. Blue collar and lawyers are never going to get along.

I used to actually care but got over the whole Gass is an ass thing and everyone else should also. Now days SS is just like any other saw. Its a good saw that will last a good long time and serve someone well. But that goes for the whole lineup especially for a hobby shop.

Don

[justsomeguy]

The plant was scheduled to open by summer of 2011, did that not happen? 

 

 

Yes. It did happen.  The plant was open in June of 2011.  They recently moved their distribution center from it's previous location to SC (where the plant is).  Maybe that's why Don thinks they've only been open a few months.

 

As far as assembly vs. manufacturing, welcome to the modern economy.

[nateswoodworks]

I for one hope they survive and pull their heads free from the brown cheeks and build like their name was built upon. When I was first getting started in woodworking was the time when it was Delta or Powermatic or junk. I have several Delta tools that I wouldn't part with as well as my old Rockwell bandsaw, but I bought a Delta slow speed grinder something like 5 yrs ago and it is definatly not the same quality, heck when I bought itI turned it on and nothin- here there was a spring pin that wasn't ever put in, how did that ever get past QA. About a year and a half ago I bought the Delta version of the Osborne (Rockler had a big sale plus I had a coupon) neither the stop or the clamp were with it. It took me literally almost eight months to get the parts for the stop-biggest joke ever too! The assembly actually consisted of nine pieces, they sent via ups one piece at a time with the exception on one time where there were two pieces in one package. The stop probably actually cost them generously $6 or $7 at most but shipping was about $40! As for the clamp, never did get it, not getting it really didn't bother me because I would probably hardly ever use it but the fact that they said "we'll we don't think we will ever get the parts for it so your out of luck", if they would have offered to refund me I would have happily declined but to basically tell you to go to ?€## didn't make me too happy. And after all this, I don't like the gauge as its stops aren't accurate! Sure hope they change, until then they aren't getting a penny from me and this is from someone who loves every Delta tool I have.

[dsaracini]

I bought one of the "new" unisaws in 2011.  I love it. It's a great saw - no problems at all so far.  I do worry a bit about being able to get parts for it in the future.  

[ChetlovesMer]

I bought one of the "new" unisaws in 2011.  I love it. It's a great saw - no problems at all so far.  I do worry a bit about being able to get parts for it in the future.  

 

If I were you I wouldn't worry about it. How many "parts" do you buy for your table saw? Perhaps a motor one day. Go to WW grainger and I'm sure you can find something in there that will replace what ever you have. Maybe a belt? ... tons of company's sell after market belts.

[CessnaPilotBarry]

If I were you I wouldn't worry about it. How many "parts" do you buy for your table saw? Perhaps a motor one day. Go to WW grainger and I'm sure you can find something in there that will replace what ever you have. Maybe a belt? ... tons of company's sell after market belts.

 

 

An interesting aside to this is that few machine manufacturers make their own motors, belts, or for that matter, bearings or even fences...  These are all off the shelf, or items available on the aftermarket.

 

The SawStop cartridge availability question is completely valid.  Only SawStop uses that particular part.  However, as a SawStop owner, I feel there are enough of them out there that I'm no more worried about the availability of SS cartridges than I am parts for any other machine in my shop. 

 

Bicycles are similar...  The "brand" of a bicycle usually only involves the frame.  The drive train, fork, saddle, handlebars, etc.. are all off the shelf parts.  If you need to replace a bicycle frame, or the top or trunnions to your saw, something has gone horribly wrong. 

[sjeff70]

Great info...okay, so who has the industry standard then?

 

I'm gaining respect for SawStop, but for price, why don't they back their saws along with Jet and PM?  

Is it because they aren't as big?  Their warranty puts them in line with Grizzly.

 

And what about Jet, where do they lie in all this?  

[dsaracini]

If I were you I wouldn't worry about it. How many "parts" do you buy for your table saw? Perhaps a motor one day. Go to WW grainger and I'm sure you can find something in there that will replace what ever you have. Maybe a belt? ... tons of company's sell after market belts.

 

One of the guys down at the Jet/Powermatic store I go into regularly advised me that I should probably be an extra arbor assembly for it and throw it in a draw some place. 

[wdwerker]

Jet and Powermatic are owned by the same holding company. Powermatic has been sold a few times over the years.

[CessnaPilotBarry]

Great info...okay, so who has the industry standard then?

 

I'm gaining respect for SawStop, but for price, why don't they back their saws along with Jet and PM?  

 

They don't have to...   Did you ever notice the longest car warranties are offered by manufacturers who have a quality, or at least a perceived quality problem?   For example, Chrysler's dark days, and the Korean makers.  It often has nothing to do with the actual quality of the product, but it's a marketing tool to draw customers.  As a personal example, all of my Toyota pickups have come with short warranties, and have been ridiculously reliable.  Both of my wife's Jeep Wranglers had the longest warranties of vehicles we've owned, and boy, did we need them!

 

Along Free Ballard's comment...  I have to admit, if a knowledgeable salesperson suggested I stockpile an extra arbor assembly for a table saw, I'd most likely pass on that saw.

[Spencer_J]

just thought i'd pepper in a bit of progress or maybe not progress? went to delta's site and clicked on their parts section. looks like the count down is over but no new parts program! I am really curious to see if the new site will carry a new inventory of parts or just the same old crappy inventory which is backordered until the end of time.... I did however, find a site which sells delta parts which are reproduced to spec. pricing is about the same as any other regular delta parts place... 

 

 

 

[knotscott]

Thanks for the replies. 

I have looked at the Sawstop, but don't like the politics involved. 

I have also looked at PM, but not impressed. The Laguna dovetail platinum saw is a good product. 

I own a Laguna 14SE bandsaw, which I bought from Torbin Helshoj at a WW show. 

I hate to give up on the Unisaw, but perhaps the handwriting is on the wall. 

Anyone have good luck with Shop Fox?

 

I've got a Shop Fox W1677 that's been great.  It's essentially a white Grizzly G1023SL...they're associated companies.  The newer Shop Fox 1819/1820 cabinet saw has the same guts as th Grizzly G0690/0691, which is very well regarded by owners.  

[Starchild]

So I don't think the information about Delta provided in this thread is exactly straight.  Yes, B&D/Stanley bought Delta.  But, they immediately ran into two issues.  One was that fact that the smaller items in the Delta line of tools significantly overlapped similar items from the several other brands BD/S owned.  Note that this includes DeWalt, Porter Cable, and Bostich in addition to B&D and Stanley.  They have a lot of tools that are essentially identical that sell under several brand names.  Most of the smaller stuff is manufactured by their Taiwanese partner, Chang.  So they had to decide what to keep in the lineup using the Delta name.  They pared it down.  Then, as everyone knows, when Chang picked up the manufacturing of the smaller and mid-sized stuff that carried the Delta brand name, a huge break in the distribution chain occurred.  In essence they missed an entire year's worth of dealer orders.  That caused most of their retail outlets to stop stocking Delta.  So now, most of their stuff has to be purchased from a smaller number of dealers on-line unless you happen to live near one of them, or by special order.  The move of small and mid-sized power tool manufacturing out of the US to Asian factories is pretty much a universal fact.  All of the better stuff, including Delta and Milwaukee have gone that way.  In some cases the tools have gotten better, some have gotten worse, and for some there is no discernible difference.  I have mostly Delta and Milwaukee in my shop, and I see no reason to change.

 

On the Saw Stop, it is a serious temptation.  The idea for the safety mechanism is fantastic and it's execution is proven.  It works.  However, I've spent a lot of time at the local Rockler store going over the cabinet and casting quality, and the fit and finish of the parts.  Saw Stop quality is no where near that of a comparably priced Unisaw.  I think this stands to reason.  If you were to add The Saw Stop mechanism to a Unisaw it would probably increase the price by the better part of a $1000, and the Saw Stop models are simply not that expensive.  While there is no guarantee in this life that one will get what one pays for, I think it is a pretty safe bet that one virtually never gets more than what one pays for.  For a 36" Saw Stop to have the equivalent quality of a 36" Unisaw it would have to sell for well over $4000.  Instead they run about $2900.  That means one is getting the Saw Stop mechanism with at most a $1900 cabinet saw wrapped around it, and $1900 is not going to buy a decent cabinet saw, even if it is made someplace in Asia.  I think this quality difference is a much bigger issue than the political situation at Saw Stop.   When safety is balanced against quality, it becomes a very difficult choice.  Personally, I'm leaning toward quality, but I am not going to commit to one or the other for about another three months.  That said, if I had to make the decision tomorrow, I would go for the Unisaw.  Aside from the fact that the traditional Delta quality is still in the Unisaw, their new tilt mechanism with the hand wheel in front, that huge angle indicator, and the angle accuracy that comes with that indicator are very nice.  And, after all, why does one buy a good cabinet saw instead of a much cheaper contractor saw?  Consistent cut quality is the only answer I can come up with, and in truth, that is the only reason why I want to upgrade my old contractor saw to a good cabinet model.  The temptation to go with Saw Stop would increase significantly if they made two changes.  One, make a super quality saw to go with their fantastic safety mechanism.  Two, get rid of that horrifically ugly paint job and monstrous logo.

[CessnaPilotBarry]

 If you were to add The Saw Stop mechanism to a Unisaw it would probably increase the price by the better part of a $1000, and the Saw Stop models are simply not that expensive.  While there is no guarantee in this life that one will get what one pays for, I think it is a pretty safe bet that one virtually never gets more than what one pays for.  For a 36" Saw Stop to have the equivalent quality of a 36" Unisaw it would have to sell for well over $4000.  Instead they run about $2900. 

 

 

Check out the SawStop ICS, not the PCS...  Your math is pretty much dead on. 

[Rick A McQuay]

Thanks for the background info. I am guilty of some speculation because there is so little info readily available.

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[EdgewaterWW]

The Delta info Wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Machinery