websherpa

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About websherpa

  • Birthday 01/06/1964

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  • Location
    Waterdown, ON
  • Woodworking Interests
    Arts & Crafts, Shaker Furniture, Pinball Cabinet Restoration

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  1. Jason, I appreciate your responding openly in the thread (albeit it's an old one) and I will give you a call tomorrow (I'm located in Waterdown, not too far up the peninsula from you on the Niagara Escarpment). I had the very unusual experience of having two similar but different units installed in the same location which would be a rarity, and my space is echoey with multiple insulated windows, finished walls and ceiling and still somewhat barren floor space. The EZ DUZZIT unit can keep the space heated, there is no doubt of that. It may also be that I and the others who have experienced it are expecting more of an evenly heated air space such as would occur with a Unit Heater with blower fan. But really it's the culmination of all of the various qualities that drove my declaration of dissatisfaction. It would be good to have you try to help me even them out to get the best possible performance from this unit before I decide whether to replace it this summer. I have been meaning to call Easy Radiant Works anyway to clarify a question with regard to the EZ Duzzit exhaust mounting instructions (whether exhaust to the outside should angle UP to the outside - as most gas exhausts do - but which "can" cause condensation back-up, or DOWN to the outside (which would help drain condensation but generally not done that way to avoid flue gas back-up). Caveat: I am not a gas installer or any sort of pro in that regard. Handyman extraordinaire, yes. The instructions say "Horizontal vent systems shall slope downwards not less than 1/4" (5.5 cm) per foot from the start of the vent system to the vent terminal." So I would assume that means sloping downward from the end of the radiant tube baffled exhaust end to the exterior exhaust (since the radiant tube itself needs to be mounted level to avoid "walking"). A subsequent certified gas installer (with radiant tube installation experience) was hesitant to say that would be a correct orientation (again since most heated gas exhausts slope upwards). NOW, the condensation issue with the EZ Duzzit could have a few different causes typical to such systems (although I hadn't thought about a missing baffle). In my case the heater is mounted in the dead middle of a 16' span so it is a right angle and 8 feet to the outside exhaust, and the original installer only used a 4 foot length of B vent. So perhaps some cold exterior air is condensing on the thinner exhaust pipe between the B vent and the radiant tube, AND the original installer left a slight "v" bend in "supposedly" well caulked exhaust vents (so water is pooling and exiting the B-vent fitting). In hindsight, I might have chosen to mount it closer to the exterior wall and angled it in to the space to avoid the long run of exhaust piping. I was just afraid of uneven heating which is partly why I chose to run it straight down the middle of the ceiling. (I may yet move it, although I had intended to mount other woodworking equipment high and on the exterior side which might prevent that orientation.) I would gather that is pretty much installer error and I can correct it. There is another installer issue with regard to the heavy flexible gas connector hose that is possibly causing the burner unit to "turn" on it's radial axis with vibration. The other thing that is notable is that there is still a smell of burnt oil (or maybe it is burning red silicone) even a year after the original installation when it is running hard. I am sure that with your assistance I can get this unit running as well as possible and that my experience was tainted by the difficulties with the original installation. I do still maintain, that the one-stage Space Ray PTS40 unit that was originally installed appeared to me to be a smarter more advanced design for the burner unit and ultimately quieter with the blower motor mounted "inside" the heater unit housing. It's delayed exhaust fan setting might also assist with reduction of condensation (but I have a feeling that feature is more of a safety for units installed where the intake air is taken from the interior) . Why I was told the EZ DUZZIT unit was $1000 more expensive than the Space Ray is something only the original installer could answer (and he may have padded for his time and delivery cost). The manufacturers won't release much in the way of pricing information to anyone other than a heating contractor, who all have different mark-ups. Whether the heat distribution differences and resonance vibration rattling I perceive are due to incorrect installation of the EZ DUZZIT unit I can only guess at. (My best guess is that the rattling IS the interior baffle rattling, because it is not the reflection hood.) One thing I did learn that may be useful to another woodworker was that the installation of a large slow moving ceiling fan will definitely benefit the heat distribution from the unit (to prevent heat pooling near the ceiling). It somewhat defeats the purpose of not installing a Unit Heater with a blower (which I did not choose because I do some painting and wanted to minimize airborne saw dust), but at least I can choose when to turn an independent fan on and off. I am currently using a floor mounted fan to get that air circulation until I decide on the final location of the radiant gas heater, but the distribution of heat is definitely more even once some air circulation is introduced. Another novel! lol
  2. OK, I'm back to report that I am really disappointed with the EZ-DUZZIT radiant tube heater unit (Canadian Made). Now I would imagine that most people who install it don't have 11 foot ceilings in their garage, but even though it has the same 40,000 BTU rating as the 40k BTU Space-Ray I started with it is far under powered by comparison. All the heat is at the burner unit, doesn't heat up as fast, and the exhaust end is hardly radiating, where as the Space Ray unit, although hotter at the burner unit, of course, was significantly hotter along its length and promoted an even heat along the floor and walls. I ran the Space Ray for a little while during the tail end of our Canadian Winter (and my garage is extra well insulated), and it was comfortable and the heat seemed even as it radiated back from the surroundings. An infra-red temperature gun confirmed that. The EZ-DUZZIT by comparison doesn't cut it and it's warmer out. It cycles more often, it's fan is louder, and the heat doesn't feel even (it's much colder a shorter distance from the thermostat). Anyone want to buy a 20 foot straight tube radiant heater by EZ DUZZIT? It's not worth the money, but I can't really afford to replace it. I would never recommend it to anyone, there are better units out there (I just have to find one that is rated for a residential garage and isn't U-shaped). I read a few hobbyist recommendations online for the EZ DUZZIT (and not many other units) and I can only think those people were using an older model or using them in much smaller spaces (and my garage fell well within the manufacturers recommended space for such a unit).
  3. Wow, now does THAT bring back memories. It used to be like music to my ears.
  4. Still, I would recommend that, if possible, potential future owners of Radiant Tube Gas Heaters do a lot of research, look for a unit other than an EZDUZZIT (who hides the fact that they have an exterior mounted fan on their unit) that has its enclosed fan motor mounted INSIDE the burner unit, and try to get a satisfaction guarantee from the installer. Maybe my experience was somewhat isolated and it's RARE that someone would get to experience two such heaters mounted and working in the same garage workshop space over a short A/B type test time period, but I could easily tell the difference in loudness, heating pattern (the EZDUZZIT is more concentrated towards the burner unit than the Space-Ray was) and build quality of the two units.
  5. I hadn't realized until I went back to look at Dave's reply that I wrote a novel. (I was a bit pissed off when I penned it.) I've had the gas installer back to fix the issues with the newer EZDUZZIT tube gas heater unit and made him follow the manufacturer's recommendations (and replace the faulty thermostat) and the EZDUZZIT is a lot quieter now (still perhaps not quite as quiet as the Space Ray, but now tolerable). Good thing too as I was about to toss the whole thing out onto the street. LOL I am still miffed that I spent an extra $1000 to have an inferior unit put in just because Space-Ray wouldn't pay the cost to have their unit residentially certified (and that my installer put me through all of this). But at least the garage is heated and I can hear myself think now.
  6. I've built a 16 x 38' x 11.5ft ceiling garage extension to ours house (with bedrooms above) and the project has gone along pretty smoothly except I made two mistakes (so this thread is partly advice, partly seeking advice, and partly looking to bitch among those who've been there). 1st Mistake was in soundproofing the garage. I had the foresight to do resilient channel on the adjoining wall and ceiling, I originally wanted double 5/8 Fire Rated drywall with green glue but I compromised due to the price and general contractor advice. The sound containment is pretty good for a big echoey space, on the adjoining wall (but it's thicker and multiple materials). The ceiling isn't quite as good, it has foamed I-beams and carpet above, but I shouldn't have let the contractor talk me out of putting extra insulation in the hollow space. But that's not the major problem. I completely forgot to consider sound-proofing on the outer wall (although it is 5/8 drywall), no resilient (but pink glass wool insulation) - and there's definitely a significant leak of flanking sound up that wall to the bedrooms above. You can hear a moderate radio, or people talking (but cannot make out the words). By comparison, across the adjoining wall you can hear nothing but distant machinery sounds. I think I am going to have to add a Layer of drywall with green glue between to that outside wall. That wall has a lot of Windows too. So that doesn't help. The bigger mistake was with the garage heater. I made a mistake and didn't use the general contractor's gas fitter and hired my own, based on a history of good service, and it's been nothing but problem after disappointment after problem. Apart from some other stupid mistakes and shoddy work that I've had to have re-worked, he installed a 20' radiant gas tube heater 40 btu. The unit was a Space Ray, and although it's burner unit was bit big and overhead clearance a bit longer than ideal, it started out working well. Except for copious amounts of condensation, or perhaps infiltrted rainwater as the fitter installed the exhaust tube on a slight upward slope to exit (like as done in a high efficiency furnace where there is a condensation drain). It gave good and fairly even heat along its length (concentrated at the burner, of course) the blower was very quiet, it came with extra safety features and idiot lights on the outside. Well, in addition to the condensation leak, I noticed that the tube connector was installed upside down, the reflectors coupled in the wrong spot, and it start an odd intermittent vibration that I thought seemed related to the reflector. Well then I came in and the heater seemed to be shutting down prematurely and the thermostat going completely blank (it needed to be turned off and on to gain access to the thermostat controls). After a couple more times I called the fitter and started reading it's manual. Among other things I discovered that this particular heater had specific warnings not to install in a residential dwelling. It was ambiguous whether that included inside an attached garage, so I called the manufacturer and they confirmed that it wasn't certified for garage use and that would void my warranty and I also worried that my insurance company might not be impressed if there were a fire in the place. So I paid extra to have the fitter replace the unit with a more expensive one built locally here in Ontario, Canada called the EZ-DuzzIt which is certified for residential garage use. Well, installed It seemed to me that the unit was of a bit lower quality than the original. And the heating was less even (even more stacked toward the burner unit), and not as quiet - unlike it's brochure (and the one it replaced) it has its sealed fan motor on the outside of the burner unit, and when it shuts down it shuts gas and blower at the same time, as opposed to the first unit that continued running the fan for a bit after the gas was stopped. And even though I had it installed on chain and eye hooks instead of strapping and long wood screws into the I-beams like the previous heater, it rattles even louder and more constantly. I noticed that the fitter installed the tube on a sloped angle up down towards the exhaust venting (which elbows and then down toward the exhaust vent outside. In front of the fitter it dripped condensation from the inside of the exhaust elbow again (the fitter has sealed all the other exhaust joints with red heat silicone. (He said, wire a tin cup under it). And no turnbuckles on the chains for easier levelling like I had asked. And then the icing on the cake, after the fitter left, the same problem of the thermostat shutting down and blanking out the thermostat screen (it's a simple Honeywell unit), and I would have sworn that the unit was shutting down before reaching the set temperature ... But I could be wrong about that. Anyway it appears to me like the thermostat isn't operating correctly. So apart from the "certified" use, I feel like I've managed to pay an extra $1000 for an inferior unit AND another complaint with the installation. Very frustrating as I couldn't live with the unit rattling away and the uneven heat, I'd rather use my noisey electric construction heater. So my advice, don't hire any of your own subtrades when using a general contractor .... This could have been HIS problem instead of mine. So apart from the getting the thermostat replaced and having the fitter change the angle of the tube unit, any adice on how to handle a situation like this? Was paying an extra $1000 for the 40 btu 20 foot straight EZ-Duzzit unit a mistake or have I been taken? (Guess I'll be calling to get the manufacturers pricing on both units tomorrow to make sure.) Do all radiant tube heaters rattle on and off while burning? Are there tricks to getting them to settle down? And I'm wondering if others have had experience with the EZ-Duzzit unit?
  7. Excellent and timely advice estesbubba. Being trigger happy (since I may take advantage of our reno electrician) I went a head and ordered the HO T8 fixtures, although for the way I am doing the ceiling space I was thinking of fitting only fit 5 ( 2 strips of 2 8 footers towards middle + 1 perpendicular at front) plus an additional hanging regular 4 bulb hanger over my electronics area. I think it works out to around 95fc, but I guess that depends on the bulbs and how they are driven. I ordered the HDepot Philips 5000k bulbs to go with... wondering now if I should re-think that?
  8. I'm a little further along in the garage workshop project (36 x 16) and just getting to the lighting part (we have been having some soundproofing issues). As part of this project I am fairly certain I'm installing a Radiant Gas Tube Heater which will run 20' right down the middle of the garage (which eliminates a middle run for lights). And the final ceiling didn't end up being completely flat, it has some protrusions for vac. So in the end the lighting layout is going to be a little creative (likely the equivalent of 6 x 96' 4lt T8, 5000k AltoII Philips, which will regenerate about 85 foot--candles at 36" table height ). That's if I use typical HDepot Lithonia TC 2 32's. I am considering going up a notch (I can likely get better ballasts at the same price from an electrical supplier. I was hoping to purchase from HDepot for financing reasons... so the HO T8 fixtures also have some appeal. However, here's my dilemma. It's reasonable to assume that T8 replacement LED fixtures are coming down in price and going up in quality. They're currently hovering around CDN$20 for the type that don't require an electronic ballast (they wire direct to 120v), and I am handy at electronics / electrical. So I'm having a hard time deciding whether to invest in better quality T8 Fluorescent (NO or HO?) fixtures and bulbs now (and amortize them until they need replacing - and home the price of LED replacements goes down further), or cheap out on the fixtures (possibly even go the T12 salvage route) and either "live" with inferior fluorescent for a while, or make the leap direct to LED (assuming that the lower energy costs will help pay for the extra bulb cost). Perhaps the key to going direct to fluorescent is finding salvage T8 / T12 strip fixtures, or another similarly priced solution. Any thoughts, experience or recommendations? Thank you!
  9. In the end I'm going to put the idea of a urinal on hold for now and wait for a more urgent need (which may translate into toilet) since space is at a premium. Although I am a fastidious cleaner, my worry still is that the smell of urine, or the cleaners will be overwhelming.
  10. Adding some Roxul and just putting 6mil poly to hold it up would afford some sound deadening on its own, but not much. You could fill the joists with the Roxul and then directly staple ceiling panels (the card fiberous kind) to the joists (which is somewhat easy to remove and re-install in sections as needed without losing as much height as a dropped ceiling might. Making sure to caulk ALL cracks, wire and pipe penetrations to the floor above with Acoustic caulk (and insul wrapping any heating conduit) will also go a long way, as any air penetrations can really carry the higher frequency noise right through). When you are able to seal the ceiling 2 sheets of 5/8 drywall separated by Green Glue is apparently one of the best methods advocated (which we are going to try not he ceiling of our attached garage below bedrooms - but I haven't installed it yet). You can sound seal from the top too if you can redo or cover your floor. An overlay of a second plywood underlay separated by Green Glue, or even just another layer of thick plywood underlay and a carpet and carpet underlay will also help. If your basement workshop is an isolated room, then building in some bass traps in the corners will help keep the bass from resonating to some extent as well.
  11. There's a lot of wisdom in this. I started researching "waterless urinals" and then started thinking about where I was puttin my time and money at this stage. So I think I am going to cross my legs and put the money towards wood or a beer fridge. P.S. I got the go ahead from the spouse, a veto from my best friend neighbour's wife and a 'I don't know, could be good, could be bad" from my bfn. And an "oh crap, we just threw out our last two stadium units from Japan." from my other neighbour plumbing wholesaler friend. So I guess the idea isn't going to flush.
  12. I seem to remember reading that you need a certain kind of sawdust for it to work, but considering that any hamsters and guinea pigs our kids have ever had peed in sawdust (and it still reeks), I'm not betting on the neutralization factor of any wood but green pine or cedar. ;-)
  13. OK, now that I've sorted out my 16 x 36 x 11' shop build, I have another important decision to make. To pee, or not to pee? That is today's question. Here's a quick shot of my "garage that shall not hold vehicles" build in progress. My crafts are pinball and slot machine restoration and woodworking (which I trained for, but haven't done in a long time due to lack of space): I've already arranged for an outdoor rated hot/cold faucet and plumbed laundry sink and drain (connected to stack and drained in house through adjoining wall - it would be at far end, left wall a short length from the man doors at the back). It's a place to clean-up, eyewash / first aid station, cleaning supplies, etc. I don't have room for a toilet. And I decided to keep the garage completely isolated from the house (you have to walk out the man doors and up to the house back door). Yes, I could just step outside, we have a large yard. And face it, in a "pinch" - who hasn't peed into a laundry tub? (OK don't all shout out at once.) But then I got to thinking, what about a urinal to save a few trips into the house or brass monkey balls on cold Canadian winter days? Plumbed, maybe waterless (I'm worried about the smell, but it could be rinsed from a shower head in the laundry sink) - what do you all think/do?
  14. Thank you estesbubba! Funny I stumbled upon that tool once a while ago, but couldn't find it again. Punching my coordinates in gives me 9 (one less than the Jack Lindsey calculation) x TC 2 32 (which are 4 lamp 8 foot Lithonia strip lights) for 3 rows of 3 luminaries, and an anticipated luminance of about 105 fc at my bench height. PERFECT! [i likely have to add an additional light UNDER my garage door clearance anyway, as I will likely use the space above the garage door for storage (so it will block light to the floor underneath unless the garage door is open).] Now I just have to find a good supplier in Ontario OTHER than Home Depot in order to get better ballasts at a fair price.