New DIY'er Needs Help With Table Legs


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Hello Wood Pros, 


I have literally NEVER built anything on my own before, but due to a super-tight moving budget I need to DIY a new dining table and desk. I have questions about attaching table legs to table tops, and hopefully this is where you guys can give me some pointers. Please keep in mind while reading that I do not know anything about drilling or sawing or even the wood that I am using. I'm pretty lazy, so gluing and screwing are what I am most capable of, and the wood that I mention is the cheapest I can find at Home Depot.


First up, the beat-up farmhouse dining table for no more than $50. Simply by looking at pictures of some online, I came up with a plan. I want the table to be 32"W x 60"L x 30"H.  My plan is to use four 1x8 whitewood pine boards, lay them next to each other, and then glue-and-screw several 1x4 support boards across the back. Then comes the unsure part - attaching legs to the table top. Waddell plates and screw-on legs seem thin and wobbly to me, so I figured using four 4x4x29 pieces of pressure-treated lumber would be best for stability. I thought I'd first glue the legs down on to the table and after a day or so of drying, stand it up and then screw the legs on tightly through the top boards for added support. Does this sound like a winner or a loser and is there a step needed that I don't know about? 


Project 2 is more straightforward. I found an abandoned Queen Ann table top and four 29" legs that I would like to make into a desk. The top is a bit on the heavy side and I've never worked with wood glue before so I don't know if glue on its own is strong enough to hold thin Queen Ann legs on. The top is too pretty and laquered to screw through. 


Please feel free to respond in a manner a four-year-old would understand, as that is my woodworking level at this point. Thanks!

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To be blunt, it sounds like a loser.  But it'll probably hold plates and bowls if that's all you're after.

 

I'm not sure how to respond because you're asking for advice, yet you want to do it the "lazy" way.  The right way is not the lazy way, unfortunately, and there are a lot of woodworking 101 rules broken in your design.  If you just want to screw some boards together willy-nilly, go for it...it'll probably hold itself together...and it sounds like you're going for a "rustic" look anyway, so the result may be satisfactory to you.  But if you want to do it the right way - and I'm not talking about advanced techniques...just fundamental construction basics - and you're willing to put in a little extra effort, then I think you'll get a lot of help here.  But I'm not sure how much time people will want to invest helping if they think you don't really care.

 

Not to be rude, please don't take it that way.  I just need to know you're interested before I'm interested...I think others will feel the same way.

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Not that I want to be a downer on someone who wants to learn how to make things but honestly, find something on craigslist.  Save building for when you can put in the time and money to do it right.

 

Look at any table.  They are all built pretty much the same way and there is a good reason why.  You're leaving out the aprons, which are the pieces that are on edge in between the legs.  The legs are attached to the aprons and the aprons are attached to the top.  You could get 1x4s for the aprons and screw from the legs into the aprons, which is not going to look good but will at least hold together.  The next step up would be to get a $40 pocket hole jig.  This would let you hide the screws inside of the table going from the aprons into the legs which is much stronger too.  You'd also need a way to securely clamp the pieces together while driving the screws though which is not so simple on the long side of the table.  You would be better off having the home center cut a piece of plywood for you for the top.  You can make a decent table with nothing but pocket hole joinery and simple straight (but square and accurate) cuts. 

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One other thing.  I know that the chemicals used for pressure treating wood are a lot better than they used to be, but I personally would not want pressure treated wood used in furniture in my home.  That's just me, and if someone can say that the modern PT stuff isn't dangerous, well that's great.  But, I would just laminate two 2X4 together rather than use PT wood.

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Thanks for the info on the pressure-treated lumber, since I really had no clue what that even meant - it was just the cheapest thing I saw on Home Depot's site. The next cheapest is a Douglas Fir, which I am actually planning to use for a coffee table with just Waddell plates and legs. 

 

Yes, this table isn't something that is going to be used full-time, if anything, mostly for decoration and the occasional dinner, which is why I don't want to invest a lot of time and money and effort into building. I'm not looking for a career in wood-working, I'm just an extremely busy and poor grad student, hence the "lazy" comment. As for the apron part, I just want something really simple and it seems to me that 4x4 legs should hold up the pretty lightweight boards on the top just fine. 

 

So, can anyone answer the second question about the wood glue - is that strong enough to hold legs on to the Queen Ann tabletop on its own? 

 

Thank you! 

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While I agree with Eric for the most part, Id have to say this could also be the thing that sparks an interest for future projects for you so ill throw my 2 cents in.  Nothing wrong with what your thinking for the first table.  Id suggest as other people mentioned to stay away from pressure treated lumber, especially if you have young ones around or animals like dogs.  Both will proboly work fine for what your after and want but you could pry take it up a notch in the quality aspect with minimal effort and cost.  I second use of the pocket jig.  If you can splurge for the kreg jig kit they have at home depot it actually comes with all the stuff you need to start building right away and it includes plans for a small table, a desk, bookshelves and a few others are also available online from kreg.  There is also a fairly decent DVD that comes with the kit.  The kit should run you around 100$.  If you purchase the kit youd not only have it for this project but any other future ones as well (bookshelves?) and its a great tool for fixing existing pieces of furniture if that need ever arose and will give you a much cleaner and sturdier finished project then what your thinking of doing now.  Your on the right track and you might want to look around for some 'basic' or 'simple' plans for those two pieces your interested in making.  Lots of those basic plans are free or very very cheap and you can then change anything you want or at the very least get ideas of how some of this stuff is put together on a basic level.  Your second table i suggest you use aprons to help keep the legs from sprawling out or bucking in, it will add quite a bit of stability, something youll appreciate at your desk when your writing, typing, or even erasing something.... youd be amazed at how annoying a piece of furniture can be that wiggles and unfortunately a piece that has wiggle in the piece can stay upright but once it starts to wiggle it will generally get worse with use and time.  You might want to check out ana whites website, or even just google her name.  She does some pretty nice looking, budget minded rustic stuff on there and most of its just stuff that came from places like home depot. 

 

 

Nyles

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I think think the time and effort you have available for this project is not in line with what would be needed for even very modest results. Nothing wrong with that but you are underestimating what is needed. You will be happier with Craigslist. You will be happiest taking a little more time and effort!

And as others said, the kreg jig helps a lot. Consider getting a handy friend to help out in exchange for a case of beer.

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I'll second Nyle's recommendation to look at http://ana-white.com I'm not going to argue with anyone who knocks it as "not-fine-woodworking" (it isn't)... but if you're interested in simpler plans using big-box style wood and very basic tools, you may want to start there. I'm not a fan of how she does certain things (for example, I think her demo video where she cuts notches with a circular saw is very unsafe) but you'll get the basic idea.

 

Also, do not use pressure-treated lumber for indoor furniture. Even the newer stuff has pretty nasty chemicals. You should be able to find non-PT 4x4s in HD/Lowes/wherever.

 

Speaking of HD/Lowes - try local construction supply places. They may have a better selection of 1x/2x/4x fir/pine. It'll still be soft, but I've had better luck getting dry and straight wood there.

 

Last... seriously, have you looked at Ikea? I know DIY sounds nice, but you can get this desktop for $36 or a solid wood top which matches your dimensions for $80. That $35 top was my work desk for years - and  was shockingly sturdy. You might spend $50 on wood, but I guarantee measuring, cutting, assembly, and sanding will be a lot more effort than putting a couple legs on a pre-finished, flat surface. 

 

A good dining table is a necessity, and flexible. I'd seriously consider not DIY-ing that, and focusing your energy on the queen anne table.

 

As for the Queen Anne table:

Don't try glueing the table legs directly to the tabletop. The end grain of the wood will suck up all of the glue, leaving a very weak bond, especially if the underside of the table has any finish on it. It'll break the first time you put any sideways pressure on it. The kreg jig and/or aprons might help. Do you think you could post some pictures?

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I'll echo what the others have said and say if this is a one-time project, and you never see yourself building another piece of furniture, hit Craigslist.

 

If you think you might like to start building some things in the future, take a look at this dining room table: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/10/27/make-a-dining-room-table-by-thanksgiving/

 

Or some of them from Ana White:

http://ana-white.com/2009/12/plans-farmhouse-table-knock-off-of.html

 

http://ana-white.com/2010/03/plans-very-rustic-table-and-cool.html

 

http://ana-white.com/2009/11/plan-modern-farmhouse-table-knock-off.html

 

They're definitely not 'fine woodworking' but they will likely last longer than anything you could buy at a big-box store. I have a friend who needed a coffee table quick, in a certain style when his wife needed it prior to a housewarming party. He builds furniture, but had to bang it out in pine and MDF (it's painted) in a day and did so. He's had it 8 years now. 

 

So going with a construction lumber and pocket screws table isn't going to give you a family heirloom that your great grandchildren will be eating off, but it will last longer than you might think it will.

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Go onto you tube and search for rustic dining tables I think this is what your looking for. This forum is more fine furniture oriented so from your original post your looking for a down and dirty construction grade lumber table that won't break the bank and you don't need a fortune worth of tools to build. Here is one video that I looked at there were lots to choose from on you tube

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Elizabeth, welcome to the forum. I know what it's like to be a college student on a TIGHT budget. That being said, it sounds like what you have designed is for the extremely temporary décor of a college student's apartment. Your design won't be pretty but will certainly work for an occasional dinner guest as long as you make sure they don't lean on it. Having the legs attached to the top has limited structural integrity. It will hold the top up but you really won't be able to move it without lifting it from both ends and setting it in place. By dragging it, you run the risk of having it collapse, usually falling toward the direction of pull, which is normally right where you are. :)  Just recognize that any time you need to move it, you will need help.

 

If you are reassembling the Queen Ann table, it should have aprons that you can glue the legs to. You can back these up with glue blocks, hidden behind the aprons so they won't show. If it doesn't have an apron, it was probably a desperate college student design and they tried to move it by themselves.

 

Seriously....download a couple pictures of your proposed desk and we can better evaluate your options. We REALLY don't mind helping if we can.

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Wow, it looks like I'm over my head with this design of mine! I did have another one in mind of using two sheets of 3/4" plywood and Waddell plates and legs to screw on underneath. Would that work? Is plywood a good idea for a table top? If not, I may just have to hit up the local Goodwill the day of my move for a dining table. 

 

As for the Queen Ann desk, I'm chucking that idea as well, as it sounds like glue alone won't keep the legs on. I'm instead going to use the top to make a decorative bench. I already tried out Waddell plates and legs on it and they work just fine, so a few inches of foam on top and the kitties will have a nice little place to nap. It's a shame, though, that I have those four nice table legs left over and nothing to do with them. 

 

Thanks for all your help, everyone!  :)

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Hi Elizabeth,

 

The plywood would be ok for a cheap temporary table. You would probably want to add some support though as it would sag over time. Thanks for showing me something new, I had not heard of Waddell Plates before! Did you check out Anna White? There is a simple build for a table on the site that looks real sturdy  and perhaps a better bet the Waddell Plates. The timber frame could be real cheap lumber and you could plonk one or two sheets of ply on top. There is a cut list, drawings and a step by step guide. Should be easy to adjust the size to suit you.

Sounds like the cats have done well out of the process  :)

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Thanks, I checked out the Ana White site but the problem would still be financial. I don't have access to all those tools and can't afford to buy them, which is why I figured something super simple would be the best idea. What kind of supports do you mean for the plywood - something like 1x4 planks underneath it? 

 

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I think 2 x 4 planks would be better on edge. Just go for it Elizabeth, I think you will make table that will do the job for a short while. Just make sure it's strong and safe. Don't want it collapsing on anyone! Otherwise keep an eye out for a real cheap table in classifieds, ebay etc. When my wife and I first moved out of home we had hand me downs and cast of furniture for quite a while. Made me appreciate it when we could get better stuff.

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My plan is to use four 1x8 whitewood pine boards, lay them next to each other, and then glue-and-screw several 1x4 support boards across the back.


Elizabeth, One technical thing I want to get out there. Wood expands and contracts across the grain. For small things it doesn't make a difference, but across a table top it is significant.


Your plan for the boards and supports is good, but only use glue between the top boards. Don't glue the top board to the bottom supports. Drill holes in the bottom supports for your screws, and make them slots instead of round holes. Drill two holes that are touching or almost touching, and use a chisel, file, or screwdriver to knock out the wood between them. Then, put your screw in the center of the slot. That way, when the table top gets wider or narrower, the screws can move in the slots. Otherwise, your table top can crack.


When you go to buy your boards, you need to find boards that are straight. Most will be warped. You can sight down them to see if they curve. Get the straightest ones that you can find.

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Elizabeth,  I havnt spent much time on the Ana White website but it seemed its projects were usually done with a minimal of tools.  Depending on what tools your lacking you might be able to find alternatives with a little research  to accomplish the same thing with tools you already have.  I really think you have two options here.  Just go for it and do what you want and live and learn, or you can do some research and put forth a little effort and try and accomplish the best possible outcome possible for what you have to work with material wise and toolwise.  With out a shop full of tools and some experience your already behind the 8 ball so to speak so no matter which route you choose its going to take effort.  The biggest question is probobly reguarding the investment of both your time and money and how well do you want the project to turn out.

 

With a name like Elizabeth Aspen I just cant help but think you were born to woodwork :)

 

 

 

Nyles

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I think the best approach under your constraints is metal angle brackets and screws. " L " shaped 2 or 3 inch long pieces of steel with a couple of holes in each leg. Use at least 2 on each leg, 4 would be better. On the coffee table they will be below eye level. On the dining table put them on the 2 inside faces of each leg. Use the longest screws possible without coming through the top of the table. Drill a pilot hole to prevent splitting and make installing the screws easier. A cheap cordless drill will make this project easier.

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My first college student furniture project was a bookshelf that I used as a dresser.  I bought 1"x 8" by 8' boards, had the plan already drafted so that I could get the exact number of free cuts on site using the least amount of boards (which the guy screwed up, thinking he was doing me a favor.  Benefit was he grabbed another board and cut my last 2 foot piece out of it for no extra charge.).  I used metal framing brackets, similar to the L brackets wdwerker mentions.  

 

I tried using my roommate's father's drill until it burned out (after a handfull of screws), so I purchased a Black N Decker rechargable screwdriver.  I assembled the whole thing in a couple of hours (needed to recharge the screwdriver), but the total cost was under $40, including the tool.  I ended up trading it for a dresser 6 years and two cities later.

 

It can be done.

 

If you're looking for simple, basic, easy to make, and functional furniture, you can do it with three tools.  (One of them is between your ears.)   I ran across a Swedish site (didn't bookmark it, unfortunately) that had the designer making modular furniture (like a dining table and 2 benches) just using plywood.  You can buy 1 sheet of plywood for about $25-$50 bucks.  You'll want something that's 3/4" and not pressure treated.  Get them to cut it for you, so you have one piece that's 32" by 60", and the rest of the pieces will end up becoming the apron.  (I'd start by having them cut the 4'x8' into a 32"x8' piece and a ~16" by 8' piece.)  Cut the last 35"+ off the table top (leaving about an inch for sanding, which is a lot of sanding.)  have them cut the ~16" x 8' piece in half, so the pieces are roughly 8" by 8 foot.  If you've run out of free cuts, they can do more for a cost, or you can buy a cheap hand saw.  Cut these last 8" wide pieces in half so they are four feet long.  These four pieces will become your apron.

 

a couple of 2x4s, some angle brackets, and a drill/driver (trust me, you don't want to try drilling and driving on a rechargeable screwdriver), and some screws (don't go longer than 3/4" inch if you use 3/4" plywood), and you'll have yourself a desk/ table in no time.  Throw a sheet on it, and you've got a table.  Maybe an afternoon, two at the most.  Basic skills used include cutting a straight line, measuring, and creating a plan.  (Then we'll get into sanding, which is the tedious part.)

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