Jointer vs Jointer Plane... which is faster?


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Yes. But the discussion there kind of turned to faces instead of edges. I don't have many boards who's faces could be covered with one pass of my jointer plane. :) But yes, anything you can do in one pass would certainly come out clean and without any track marks.

On boards that are really bad, I use a scrub and a jack to get them to lay flat, and pass them through my 13" planer. A couple passes, and I flip them.

Shoot an edge with my jack and jointer and I rip them on my table saw. If an edge is really bad, I'll use a scrub plane first.

For me it's about integration, not electric power vs hand power.

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I'm trying to figure out how a hand plane is faster than a powered jointer in any situation other than perhaps sweetening an already straight edge.. I use both tools myself and in terms of speed alone

Off to the joiner again darling   

Bingo!   I also like the peace and quiet of hand tools. 

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I think the danger with this thread is context. Chet makes a great point on custom build stuff, one offs and the like, you grab the most appropriate tool to hand, in which case a hand tool is the best bet for Chet's task. If your decision is costing you money you soon find out the most appropriate tool for the job. Joiner envy, I love it  :).

 

That said with the equipment I have been fortunate enough to use, with the volume that needs doing in a joiners shop I have never needed to touch the edges with a hand plane yet. If I needed to, in my shop, I would buy a new jointer.

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On boards that are really bad, I use a scrub and a jack to get them to lay flat, and pass them through my 13" planer. A couple passes, and I flip them.

Shoot an edge with my jack and jointer and I rip them on my table saw. If an edge is really bad, I'll use a scrub plane first.

For me it's about integration, not electric power vs hand power.

Mel, I'm envious! Your method of working is what I'm aiming for. But I'm doing something wrong as I have to give up and use my 6" jointer when I start dripping on my wood! Still it has been unseasonably warm in the UK this year :-)

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Mel, I'm envious! Your method of working is what I'm aiming for. But I'm doing something wrong as I have to give up and use my 6" jointer when I start dripping on my wood! Still it has been unseasonably warm in the UK this year :-)

I have two fans to keep things cool. A large one on the floor, and a small one on my bench. But being in Wisconsin helps. In a few months I'll be begging for some heat ;)

It doesn't take long to get good results with my method. The key for me is to know when the board is flat enough to send through the planer. I enjoy hand work, but I'm not trying to kill myself either :)

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I have two fans to keep things cool. A large one on the floor, and a small one on my bench. But being in Wisconsin helps. In a few months I'll be begging for some heat ;)

It doesn't take long to get good results with my method. The key for me is to know when the board is flat enough to send through the planer. I enjoy hand work, but I'm not trying to kill myself either :)

I do this as well. Instead of a scrub, I usually start with a jack and then use a jointer. Then I run it though the planer, flip, and repeat until I get the desired dimension. This works well for me on board wider than 6 inches, as my power jointer can't handle more than 6.

It would be very time consuming to dimension BOTH sides by hand. Doing one is pretty quick, as the power planer takes care of parallel sides.

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It would be very time consuming to dimension BOTH sides by hand. Doing one is pretty quick, as the power planer takes care of parallel sides.

 

So do you keep your planer near your bench, or is it mobile?  And does anybody set up a shooting board or square up the edge right on the planer bed?  

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Right now, my planer is not attached to anything. I put a 3/4" thick piece of mdf on my tablesaw, and the planer sits on top of that when in use.

I plan to make a little cabinet for it to roll around on, but that hasn't happened yet...

I shoot short edges, like for drawers and aprons and such. For long edges I just plane them by hand, and check my work with a straight edge and a square. If I'm jointing two boards for a glue up, I joint them both individually then place the boards together vertically. One in the vice, and the other floating. This allows me to check for square. There are tricks like putting both boards in and planing them at the same time, but I don't like that.

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So do you keep your planer near your bench, or is it mobile?  And does anybody set up a shooting board or square up the edge right on the planer bed?

My planer is only a few steps from my bench. No prob to flatten one side by hand and then run it through.

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I'll take a helical head surface over one flattened with a jointer plane any day. I don't know about you guys, but my jointer plane tends to leave track marks on the surface. If my planer leaves minute scallops, they are completely undetectable to my fingers, my eyes, and my straight edge. I really don't care if the hand plane's eyes can see it. :)

 

I would suggest that this is more an issue of having either too much camber on your jointer plane, leading to tracks, or not enough camber, leading to dig ins at the corner, rather than an absolute advantage of powered jointers over hand planes. If only you knew someone who knew their way around hand planes, maybe even someone with a website and a podcast.  ^_^

 

Serious question: is your helical head good enough that the surface it leaves is ready for finish without any other treatment (smoothing plane, sanding, scraping, etc.)?

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Serious question: is your helical head good enough that the surface it leaves is ready for finish without any other treatment (smoothing plane, sanding, scraping, etc.)?

 

No. It can still use a few passes from the smoother or a 220 sanding to be truly finish-ready. But it's no worse off than the surface left by the average jointer plane (ok, MY camberless plane). Incidentally, William Ng has a Felder planer that produces a finish that's damn near hand plane quality. I am always amazed at that! Someday when I have an extra 10,000 beans laying around, I'll pick one up, lol.

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I would suggest that this is more an issue of having either too much camber on your jointer plane, leading to tracks, or not enough camber, leading to dig ins at the corner, rather than an absolute advantage of powered jointers over hand planes. If only you knew someone who knew their way around hand planes, maybe even someone with a website and a podcast.  ^_^

 

Serious question: is your helical head good enough that the surface it leaves is ready for finish without any other treatment (smoothing plane, sanding, scraping, etc.)?

 

Nope, but is a sawn board that was jack planed and try planed ready for the finishing room? Still needs a smooth, scrape, plane. All very dependent on job size but for me it does not have to be a very big job before hand planes take longer and from an industry basis edge jointing by hand never happens in our shop.

But is longer a problem? No, longer can be fun. 

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Good observations.

I think a busy shop is more apt to using powered equipment over hand equipment. It just makes sense from production stand point.

I make one or two tables a week, and maybe a small box or so. I have the time to use whichever tool makes me happy. This happens to be hand planes. I use them as much as possible. I'm also realistic. I use my planer on almost every project. I don't have a jointer, and honestly I don't want one. When thinking about it, that's when I decided to invest in hand tools more. We all know who won that decision :)

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I dont know anything about hand planing. How long does it take to joint, plane and thickness an average reasonably  decent piece of rough cut lumber 13" wide by say 5 ft long?

 

 

I haven't timed myself, but Bob Rozaieski has a podcast episode where he times himself flattening a rough piece of walnut. It takes him 5-1/2 minutes to thickness a board that looks to be about 8" x 24".
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Why is everyone in such a hurry? 

 

haha good question! For me personally, it's not about a desire to be in a hurry. It's more about a desire to NOT be slowed down.  Some tools cause me to feel like I'm going 25 mph in a 45 mph zone. I'm not in a rush. I just want to go the speed limit.  :)

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haha good question! For me personally, it's not about a desire to be in a hurry. It's more about a desire to NOT be slowed down.  Some tools cause me to feel like I'm going 25 mph in a 45 mph zone. I'm not in a rush. I just want to go the speed limit.   :)

You sound like the grandma always driving in my neighborhood. It's a small area, so I always end up stuck behind her every now and then. 15mph in the 30mph  :rolleyes:

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==> Why is everyone in such a hurry? 

 

Good question --- Many of us have a rather significant investment in stationary tools (time, space, cost, hiding the cost, etc) when we could go hand-tool-only...

 

From a purely hobbyist perspective:

 

a. we love tools...  not sure if it's nature or nurture, but we've always always loved tools -- and the bigger the better... probably a guy thing...

b. we have real jobs... so can only work projects nights/weekends -- so at some point, efficiency has value...

c. watched way too much NYW growing up...

d. father/grandfather/etc had stationary tools...

e. part of the hobby is the tools themselves -- acquiring, setting-up, adjusting, tinkering, hiding costs...

f. school shop-class was totally Normite...

 

Of course the big one --- The better half wants six new living room end/occasional tables (plus matching coffee table) all in birdseye maple -- and oh BTW, "We're having a party in two weeks... They need to be ready...  And reading my confused expression, "What's the problem? You have all these tools"...     This has happened...

 

I'm sure there are other factors...

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