Sharpening Vids


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Ok, anything to do with sharpening can be a contentious subject but what is your favorite sharpening video and why?

 

Here's mine. I like it because it's quick, simple to the point and it works. I like the free hand too. I'm not posting this to find fault with others, just curious as to what you like and why  :)

 

 

 

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Funny, I was just looking at a sharpening video that I was going to post a link to in another thread as a suggestion.   I like this guys saw sharpening video because you can see the flats from jointing.  His system is very similar to mine.  The only difference is that I use a board laying on the bench behind the saw with lines on it as a reference to fleam angle instead of a sliding block that you have to handle.  It also freaks me out a bit that his vise shakes so much.

 It always takes longer when you have to talk and explain rather than just simply doing the job.

 

http://blip.tv/hand-tools-techniques/episode-7-sharpening-part-3-2608210

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I know I was just talking about him in another thread but I like the Paul Sellers plane sharpening video:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vvTcReENk9g

I am far mor likely to use a method when it is simple. I all spent plenty of time hand sharpening axes and knives growing up so holding the angle freehand isn't all that daunting.

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It's not a video but one of Steve Elliot's web pages. The page is about the progression of wear profiles during use. A cutting edge wears on both faces as it dulls and understanding the wear greatly helps understanding what needs to be done to get a sharp edge. The link is here.

 

A lot of people don't seem to see what I see in the wear profile image so I've added information in this image. The image assumes sharpening at 200 lineal feet. The blue line is where one would have to remove metal to if one was to work only on the bevel as is done when using a honing guide. The red line is the center line between the bevel and the flat face and comparing that to the green line shows which surface is wearing faster. Comparing this shows how loss of clearance, the second image in this post, increases wear on the bevel. The orange and brown lines represent the few microns of metal that has to be honed away by honing both surfaces.

 

wear-formation.jpg

 

ClearanceLossDiagram02.gif

 

 

If you do want a video, here's one of working both surfaces:

 

 

 

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This is basically what I do now, except I use the 3M Micro Abrasive Film from TFWW instead of water stones:

 

The Paul Sellers method really appeals to me. I haven't gotten up the nerve yet to do it with all my chisels, but I was forced to try it with a new 2" chisel I bought because it doesn't fit in my honing guide.

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I know I was just talking about him in another thread but I like the Paul Sellers plane sharpening video:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vvTcReENk9g

I am far mor likely to use a method when it is simple. I all spent plenty of time hand sharpening axes and knives growing up so holding the angle freehand isn't all that daunting.

None of my smoothing planes have anything like that much of rounded up edges.  I don't know why anyone would need that much on a smoother.  If you are only going to take a couple of thousandths at the most, you don't need much more camber than  3 or 4 thousandths, and you can get that with just a little more pressure on the sides rather than rolling the whole iron off the stone.

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None of my smoothing planes have anything like that much of rounded up edges.  I don't know why anyone would need that much on a smoother.  If you are only going to take a couple of thousandths at the most, you don't need much more camber than  3 or 4 thousandths, and you can get that with just a little more pressure on the sides rather than rolling the whole iron off the stone.

I think Paul's method makes sense to me in principal but I have no practical knowledge to weigh it against. I will say that Paul's tremendous amount of experience makes me naturally believe him, but on the same token, it makes me believe Tom as well,

I was questioning how square the edges of my smoother iron were in contrast to what I saw illustrated as the ideal. This may have been a result of the originating condition of my plane iron,

It might be that if you are passionate about the degree to which the edges of your smoother iron has been eased, your are suffering from an embarrassment of riches.

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When I first started trying to learn sharpening, it was overwhelming.  So many opinions, and I watched so many videos.

 

This one really helped simplify the whole thing.  Doesn't cover chisels, but the concept is similar without using the ruler.

 

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/lie-nielsen-sharpening-video.aspx

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I think Paul's method makes sense to me in principal but I have no practical knowledge to weigh it against. I will say that Paul's tremendous amount of experience makes me naturally believe him, but on the same token, it makes me believe Tom as well,

I was questioning how square the edges of my smoother iron were in contrast to what I saw illustrated as the ideal. This may have been a result of the originating condition of my plane iron,

It might be that if you are passionate about the degree to which the edges of your smoother iron has been eased, your are suffering from an embarrassment of riches.

As long as you get the corners up so the plane doesn't leave tracks, it's good.  I was just saying taking that much off is not necessary.  It will certainly work.

 

Go to about 5 minutes into this video, and you will see a more practical method.  This is all you really need.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvop_JCfZGI

 

In our restoration work, every surface is left with a smoothing plane surface.  We even go as far as matching the arcs on the originals next to any replaced work.  I've never seen old smoother marks with rounded edges to the tracks.  All the old ones are in a fairly smooth arc.

 

One thing about woodworking is that there are any number of different paths to the same end.  One problem I see with videos is that people might see one and think that's THE way to do it.

 

When I stop to hone while I'm working on something, I almost always just use a Norton 8,000 stone.  If you need to go back past that, you have waited too long anyway.  That Norton stone doesn't need to be soaked, and it cuts really fast anyway.  I just keep a water bottle nearby, and splash a little on it.  If I'm near the sharpening bench, it will also take a few licks on the diamond lapping film that's on a dedicated surface plate to finish. 

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I don't have a video but when I learned sharpening this book was clear and easy to understand the principle of just what sharpening is and once you understand what that is, you can sharpen just about anything with nearly any abrasive.

 

There are a few things that he teaches that may get some .... other opinions from other people but if you give them a try, you find they work, such as NEVER use oil when sharpening, all it does is make a mess and actually it hurts you from getting a great edge. Since I learned the methods, I have never had a dull tool, unless I was just too lazy to sharpen it at the moment and I have not used a drop of oil on any stone. The catch here is though, if a stone has been used with oil, it is shot for use without oil as the oil that has soaked into it will cause the stone to load up with gunk and stop working. Hey, YMMV but it is really worth a read. http://www.amazon.com/The-Razor-Edge-Book-Sharpening/dp/096660590X

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I agree that once you know how to sharpen one way, all the others become easy as well.   I do not agree about oil.  I have a set of Smith Arkansas stones that I bought in 1973 that have sharpened edges for the decades since then successfully with oil.  The only reason I bought another set of oil stones was because I wanted larger stones.  The old ones still work fine after having quarts of oil processed on them.  Oil stones only get used with oil here. I have seen manmade oil stones that were no longer any good, but I don't think it was simply because oil was used on them.  Woodworkers have used oil on sharpening stones for centuries.

 

Anyone who says oil is useless for sharpening, or damages a stone, doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

I also use water on waterstones, lapping film and other films.  My first choice is oil if we are on a jobsite where the work surface for sharpening is the tablesaw top-no water on cast iron stationary tools.  My first choice at the sharpening bench is water.

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It's not a video but one of Steve Elliot's web pages. The page is about the progression of wear profiles during use. A cutting edge wears on both faces as it dulls and understanding the wear greatly helps understanding what needs to be done to get a sharp edge. The link is here.

 

A lot of people don't seem to see what I see in the wear profile image so I've added information in this image. The image assumes sharpening at 200 lineal feet. The blue line is where one would have to remove metal to if one was to work only on the bevel as is done when using a honing guide. The red line is the center line between the bevel and the flat face and comparing that to the green line shows which surface is wearing faster. Comparing this shows how loss of clearance, the second image in this post, increases wear on the bevel. The orange and brown lines represent the few microns of metal that has to be honed away by honing both surfaces.

 

wear-formation.jpg

 

ClearanceLossDiagram02.gif

 

 

If you do want a video, here's one of working both surfaces:

 

Larry's vid is very good. I like how he points out the difference between a ground bevel and a honed bevel, he uses oil too, nice and traditional  :)

 

 

I agree that once you know how to sharpen one way, all the others become easy as well.   I do not agree about oil.  I have a set of Smith Arkansas stones that I bought in 1973 that have sharpened edges for the decades since then successfully with oil.  The only reason I bought another set of oil stones was because I wanted larger stones.  The old ones still work fine after having quarts of oil processed on them.  Oil stones only get used with oil here. I have seen manmade oil stones that were no longer any good, but I don't think it was simply because oil was used on them.  Woodworkers have used oil on sharpening stones for centuries.

 

Anyone who says oil is useless for sharpening, or damages a stone, doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

I also use water on waterstones, lapping film and other films.  My first choice is oil if we are on a jobsite where the work surface for sharpening is the tablesaw top-no water on cast iron stationary tools.  My first choice at the sharpening bench is water.

 

Nice and diplomatic there Tom  :). But I do agree, oil has been used for hundreds of years very successfully.

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I told you there would be "other opinions" :-) 

Just because "it has always been done this way" does not mean that ir is correct. He does know what he is talking about. He owns a professional shadning company for industry for 30+ years. And is highly regarded in industry. He has done reasearch using electron microscopes to study edges and sharpening.

 

The reason oil produces an inferior edge is because on a microscopic scale, oil keeps both the bits of abrasive and the steel dust in suspension and the effect on the edge is like dragging a plow through dirt. If only one side was abraded the plow would never get dill but because dirt abrades both sides, it is rounded and the longer it is pulled through the dirt the more it is dulled. 

 

The same happens to the blade on the microscopic level, both sides are abraded so you are fighting this the whole time. 

 

At one time everyone KNEW the world was flat that didn't mean they were right. There is a better way to sharpen edges. However please continue to do what you know and what works for you. :-) :-) :-) 

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I see the #800lb guerillas have yet to be put up for discussion:

 

Chris Schwarz, “The Last Word on Sharpening”

David Charlesworth, “Plane Sharpening” and “Precision Preparation of Chisels”….

 

Both sets of videos are excellent in their own ways…  Chris is of the “Sharpen and get back to work” school, while David is of the “contemplative” school… 

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So thread jack in progress....which chisels can you not pair with utilizing the ruler trick? Paring by definition does not require the registration Sellars wants. Also, why are paring knives beveled on both sides? Do you trick some chisels but not all or is this simply an agree to disagree?

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==> which chisels can you not pair with utilizing the ruler trick?

 

Oh boy.....  Prying the lid off a can of worms with this one....

 

I'd go over to Hock's site...  There are at least a dozen threads on the ruler trick pros/cons for planes, chisels and just about everything else (although I didn't see one for lawnmower blades, but I could be wrong) :).

 

http://hocktools.wordpress.com/

 

http://www.hocktools.com/sharpen.htm

 

 

Seriously, is you want to get deep into sharpening, there discussions on when to use the ruler trick based on the crystal-structure of the alloy -- I kid you not...  

 

If you want to get esoteric, go over to the JapanBlade site: http://thejapanblade.com/archives.htm -- sort of like, Zen in the art of Sharpening.

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You're all wrong!  I sharpen mine on a block of cheddar cheese.  Then I eat the cheese & forget that I was supposed to be sharpening chisels.   'Tis a very happy way to sharpen. 

 

I think this will always be one of those questions where you ask 10 woodworkers what the best way is & you'll get 13 different answers.

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So thread jack in progress....which chisels can you not pair with utilizing the ruler trick? Paring by definition does not require the registration Sellars wants. Also, why are paring knives beveled on both sides? Do you trick some chisels but not all or is this simply an agree to disagree?

C, I think its surprising what you can work with. It's not often a back bevel on a chisel is required. When buying new,a chisel is made properly  :lol:, will be concave/hollow in its length, even my cheap plastic handled chisels were like that. Therefore the area behind the cutting edge always registers on the stone easily. Much nicer to deal with than a "flat" or convex chisel back.

 

If i had a grizzly old chisel (I do, an old framing chisel that had a huge wear bevel or small back bevel) then I would very slightly back bevel it. No way do I want to be rubbing that on every level of grit going just to flatten it. Also how much really long paring do we actually do? If you do, keep one really sweet for the task.

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I told you there would be "other opinions" :-) 

Just because "it has always been done this way" does not mean that ir is correct. He does know what he is talking about. He owns a professional shadning company for industry for 30+ years. And is highly regarded in industry. He has done reasearch using electron microscopes to study edges and sharpening.

 

The reason oil produces an inferior edge is because on a microscopic scale, oil keeps both the bits of abrasive and the steel dust in suspension and the effect on the edge is like dragging a plow through dirt. If only one side was abraded the plow would never get dill but because dirt abrades both sides, it is rounded and the longer it is pulled through the dirt the more it is dulled. 

 

The same happens to the blade on the microscopic level, both sides are abraded so you are fighting this the whole time. 

 

At one time everyone KNEW the world was flat that didn't mean they were right. There is a better way to sharpen edges. However please continue to do what you know and what works for you. :-) :-) :-) 

That's really interesting Cal, I would have assumed the slurry from water stones would be more like a ploughed field than the oil on stones. Can't argue with those electron microscopes! 

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