Shane Jimerfield Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I find myself constantly in a position where I have to explain that the price I just gave someone reflects what it costs to make a single custom item in America. How do you explain that it is impossible to deliver such and such at the mass production prices of SE Asia? It seems like every time I have to go down this path I only get a few words out before their eyes roll back in their heads and their mind goes off to la-la land. I might as well be talking to a room full of teens with headphones on listening to their Ipods. And to top it off I don't think it has ever resulted in a sale. It seems that if I have to explain it then they don't want to hear it. I don't get it. They live in this country too. They know how damn expensive everything is. The cost of living is ^%$#ing astronomical. Perhaps I am going about it all wrong. Is it possible to actually educate a client on the cost of production and delivery, and get a sale? Or is there a different story they need to hear? I'm thinking the latter, but I don't know what that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Find clients with more money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 What Kiki said. I'd start off by with, "Oh, there's no way you can afford custom woodworking. You wouldn't believe how expensive that is." The customers you want will try to convince you that they have enough money and can afford the very highest quality custom luxury items. Once they've convinced you, the actual price won't seem like such a shock, and even if it's higher than they expected, it will be a little embarrassing to complain about the price after they've just insisted that they can afford it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I agree with this. It is tough explaining to someone that sees an item on a website for $750 and you tell them it's going to cost $1300. I also find it difficult when a customer states a budget and you are able to make the piece for the budget. For instance, they have $1000 to spend, and you say that you can make it for $950. They think it may have cost less if they said the budget is $800. Simply put, you cannot win unless you follow kikis advice. (Which is usually solid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..Kev Posted June 3, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 I invite them to come pick out their own lumber 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yeah, people are generally shocked at how much quality hardwoods cost, but that still doesn't help you charge what your skilled labor is worth...and let's face it, that's where the majority of cost lies in a custom furniture build. You can put 100 hours or more into $100 of lumber, depending on the project. The hard part is finding people who value your time and skill set as much as you do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 You can't even beat American manufacturers (any left? They buy lumber by shipping container, sheet goods by truckloads. And they have fantastic finishers who can turn cheaper low-grade hardwood into something nice. Can't compete there, if you are making the same things (more or less). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 3, 2014 Report Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yeah, people are generally shocked at how much quality hardwoods cost, but that still doesn't help you charge what your skilled labor is worth...and let's face it, that's where the majority of cost lies in a custom furniture build. You can put 100 hours or more into $100 of lumber, depending on the project. The hard part is finding people who value your time and skill set as much as you do. I agree but, that does help explain the high cost. In the end, between the lumber cost and my cost, if the client doesn't like the amount, then they don't hire me and I'm ok with that. I get the cost buy in right off the bat so I'm not spending a bunch of time working up a quote just to find out that wasn't their budget. Frankly, I pay myself an hourly wage. If I estimate the amount of hours it takes to build a piece wrong, then that's on me. Plus the material.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 The problem is that everybody wants to get paid more but doesn't want prices to go up in response to higher wages. Whenever I have to hire somebody to do something I try to take all into account the cost of materials, the investment in equipment and last but by no means least the investment in acquiring the necessary skills to be able to produce what is wanted. I've argued both ways before too high a price and too low. If you give me a price that I think is too low then I will offer what I think is right. It isn't that I'm made of money -far from it, but my philosophy is that if I give what I think something is worth to me then next time if it goes the other way you may be willing to listen to my argument. The part that a lot of people have trouble with is the skill element. It may only take you a couple of hours to do a job but it has taken you years to get to the stage that you can do it that quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 You can't even beat American manufacturers (any left? They buy lumber by shipping container, sheet goods by truckloads. And they have fantastic finishers who can turn cheaper low-grade hardwood into something nice. Well, something that looks nice enough to catch the eye of the uninitiated, and maybe last 2 or 3 years. Most Americans are accustomed to living with 'disposable' furniture, or expect to replace it when the next style rises into veiw. Very few look at furniture as a purchase for life, or an investment in the future. How do you convince someone like that to purchase a custom piece that their great-grandkids will still be using? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Let me start by saying I wholeheartedly agree with everything said here. Then I'm going to ask that all of you remember that the next time you go to a professional printer and when you find out the price, tell them you can do it cheaper by yourself on your printer at home. That you remember this when you use the self check aisle at the hardware store or supermarket because you can't wait long enough for a professional checker to earn their living, and hopefully the benefits that come with it. Remember it when you drive by the local farmers' market to buy the packaged produce shipped in from another country because it's cheaper. I've done all of those (except the self check - I was laid off for 9 months so that's against my religion!) so I've got as many fingers pointing at myself as I might be pointing at any of you. I'm just pointing out that, when you have a problem facing that mentality, you might understand where it comes from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 I hate those self checkout stations! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 4, 2014 Report Share Posted June 4, 2014 Here is my advice. First, some context. While technically I could be considered a "professional woodworker", I am not an experienced woodworker. I work in a woodshop run by a ministry. We make products out of reclaimed pallet wood, and sell them to help the ministry be self-sustaining. We also have a sewing center, cafe, and rehab crew. The woodshop is not self-sustainable at this point. The other "businesses" are. As for pricing, the furniture market in America is way screwed up, and obviously you see why. So our strategy has been something like this: Find a couple easy products to make and sell that you can get a semi-decent price for Take custom orders from people who like you, or people you like, to experiment with design and process and get your name out. Make next to nothing on these. Some "real" customers will surface, and these take two forms: entities (people or corporations) with enough money to buy your wares. For them, approach with integrity, state your price, and stick to it. The other kind are entities that it would be incredibly profitable for you to have a relationship with. Take the commission, and tell them they can pay you what they think is fair. Move to making regular products that sell, so that you can get more of the second kind of customer, so that you custom stuff is doubly worthwhile. So, all this is in a nonprofit context, and it might not work for a small business. But that's my experience. Beyond that, I think doing what it takes to build a reputation and portfolio can get you to the place of demanding fair prices for your craftsmanship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wdwerker Posted June 6, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Self checkout? I am not doing their job for free! Give me a 5% discount and I will think about it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Self checkout? I am not doing their job for free! Give me a 5% discount and I will think about it. I agree whole heartedly. I also don't tip in a self serve or buffet style restaurant. For me the issue is more that self serve checkouts cost jobs. The one store I frequent the most that offers self checkout has a group of 6 of them in one area. They have one person who stands at a counter toward the front to watch all six checkouts and offer assistance when needed. If you don't count the security guy that monitors the area from a remote location (I recently read an article that some chains are moving away from self check because they allow for a high incidence of theft) i feel that this example is robbing 5 people of jobs. This store has in the teens of checkout lanes besides the self check. On their busiest days you are lucky to see 6 checkers working, most with at least 3 people in line. The economy being what it has been, think of the jobs that could be filled with people that would then spend part of their income in that store. I know they don't do it because there's a lack of workers available. Sorry for the distraction. I've ranted enough about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Stores are going the way of gas stations. Remember a time when a person used to pump your gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Stores are going the way of gas stations. Remember a time when a person used to pump your gas? People in Oregon do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Back to the OP, this is why I haven't done much with commission work for others. To charge enough to make it even worth my time is typically 2-3 times what it would cost to get a crappy version from Ikea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..Kev Posted June 8, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I don't go looking for commission work, it usually finds me. I tell them upfront what the cost is going to be and am ok with them walking away. It's not for everyone. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 I also do a few pieces of comission work per year. This year cutting boards, framed art, and custom doors were the "hot items". I am careful to price my work reasonably, but I dont want to undercut guys who rely on this stuff for their living. Its not fair for a full time craftsman to have to compete with a guy who has a regular 9 to 5 to feed his family when it comes to price. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Barter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Boy that jumped into politics fast. Locked until Marc can make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Re-opened. Please stay away from the political banter guys. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Apologies Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 I apologize as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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