wouldwurker Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 No apology required - it's an open thread. When I've done this, I slide a second (or makeshift) outfeed table to the left of my tablesaw, measure, and clamp a stopblock to the outfeed table BEHIND the blade. Make the cut as usual, guiding the panel on the fence side so it doesn't get caught between the blade and the fence. Adjust the fence as necessary for subsequent cuts. The reference of the left of the blade and the stopblock shouldn't change. Of course this only works if both sides are parallel square to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I guess my thing is I can set the rip fence accurately and consistently (for some loose definitions of "accurate" and "consistent") far better than just eyeballing the blade, and I have no problems as long as I'm inside the rip capacity of hte saw. For something bigger than the rip capacity, how do I deal with it? The specific problem was trimming a 19" x 28" piece of plywood to be 19" x 24". I can't do 24" to the right of my blade, so I was hoping to set the fence to rip off the excess. If it were just a board, I would use my miter gauge like your picture obviously. I don't know how to replicate that for the panel. I knew if I set the fence to 3-29/32, the 3/32 blade would make up the rest so that 4" was removed...but it's hard to set it that accurately so multiple of the panels matched. What I ended up doing was just doing my best on the first (it came out like 23-31/32" long so close enough)...then I cut the second one intentionally long and sanded away at it until they were "close enough". (Vinny, sorry to hijack your thread. =/) I'm guessing this is a job site sized saw. I have 0 experience with little saws but can you just make a cross cut sled and use a stop. I'll add some things to ponder. Don't use that tape that came with your saw. Don't use a tape measure. Always cut duplicates two or as many as you can in one cut with stops. Pencils double the error, don't use them if you don't have to. Set up the machine not the wood. There is no reason you can't get a nearly perfect setup within thousandths of an inch with a $7 steel rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I'm guessing this is a job site sized saw. I have 0 experience with little saws but can you just make a cross cut sled and use a stop. Yes unfortunately. I know it's stupid and I should just buy a real table saw, but I'm working on getting a table/cabinet built around it to give me both side and outfeed support that will solve a lot of my problems. Once I'm setup, I'd just use crosscut sled. Don't use that tape that came with your saw. Don't use a tape measure. Always cut duplicates two or as many as you can in one cut with stops. Pencils double the error, don't use them if you don't have to. Set up the machine not the wood. I was afraid to try to cut two panels together on the small table saw...that would be best situation since they'd come out the same for sure, but I was worried about manuvering the weight and managing my current rickety setup. Not using pencils is why I was asking the question...I'd rather measure how much needs to be trimmed off and be able to setup the machine to trim off that much than try to hit a pencil line. There is no reason you can't get a nearly perfect setup within thousandths of an inch with a $7 steel rule. Well since this situation happened, I went online and ordered some more accurate rules from a site Steve (wdwerker) had linked in other threads. With those I could measure to the left side accurate enough I imagine. The best one I had before was a cheapo Home Depot one that was only down to 1/16ths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Go to lowes and buy a $3 steel yard stick. If you need a longer one buy the 6ft for $10. I keep a 36" on my fence rail and never use a pencil. They are more than accurate enough. As long as you use the same one for all cut you will always be close to perfect. Don't buy into the expensive myth that you need fancy rules or squares for machine woodworking. I haven't taken the squares out of the drawer in years. http://www.lowes.com/pd_123911-1099-AE141_0__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Steel rules certainly maintain more precision than your basic carpenter's rules. I get mine from office supply and engineering supply. Really, as ways for me, from auctions and thrift shops, but they originally came from those sources. Office supply stores have longer cork-backed rules 18" to 24", still small enough to fit a lap drawer. Engineering rules tend to be the little 6" things but they are handy to keep in your pocket or tool box and weigh very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Go to lowes and buy a $3 steel yard stick. If you need a longer one buy the 6ft for $10. I keep a 36" on my fence rail and never use a pencil. They are more than accurate enough. As long as you use the same one for all cut you will always be close to perfect. Don't buy into the expensive myth that you need fancy rules or squares for machine woodworking. I haven't taken the squares out of the drawer in years. http://www.lowes.com/pd_123911-1099-AE141_0__ Man...I freaking hate Home Depot...I have the best yard stick that my HD has and it's an aluminum one that is only down to 1/16 on one side...that's what I was using. The one you linked looks a lot handier. I need to drive the extra bit to get to Lowes more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A McQuay Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Plywood and boards are different animals. If the sheet is too big for your tablesaw then use a straight edge and circular saw. Trying to balance a large sheet on a small saw is dangerous and frustrating. It doesn't matter if you are using a yard stick or tape measure, just stick with the same one. In woodworking, precision almost always trumps accuracy. Precision is the ability to repeat a measurement, accuracy is hitting a specific measurement. So if you need 4 tables legs that are 24" long and all 4 end up 23-7/8 -- you win. When I cut pieces, I write down the measurements and use my saw's ruler. If it doesn't match my rule or tape measure that's okay because I'm using it to measure and cut all the pieces. When eyeballing, a marking knife will be a big improvement over a pencil but even with a sharp pencil you should be within hundredths of an inch. Lining up a cut by eye is a matter of practice. Make sure to line up an outside tooth with your mark. If necessary, sneak up on the cut by cutting near your line, tap the piece over a hair and try again. It doesn't have to be a full cut, just an 1/8" cut will tell you if you are hitting your mark. Remember that hundreds of years ago guys were making masterpieces with handsaws and (maybe) wood rulers or (probably) story sticks so with a little practice you can do it with all the modern conveniences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Plywood and boards are different animals. If the sheet is too big for your tablesaw then use a straight edge and circular saw. Trying to balance a large sheet on a small saw is dangerous and frustrating. That's what I had done. I had broken it down with my circular saw for the most part...then done smaller pieces on the table saw for final dimension. I ended up with two 19x28 leftovers that I needed to be 19x24. I guess I could have done those with my circular saw, and maybe that's the right answer, but I felt I was getting better cuts and easier to keep square with the table saw. ...precision almost always trumps accuracy. I agree, that's why I was wanting a way to reliably set the fence and why I wanted to use the table saw in general (versus trying to clamp my straight edge consistently/reliably). My problem was that the two pieces were not both perfectly 28"...in reality one was like 28-1/32, and one was 27-63/64...so the fence setting to trim them both off to 24" was not the same. I didn't feel like setting to the outer edge of the tooth by eye was precise enough and was worried about exaggerating the difference between the two even more. If necessary, sneak up on the cut by cutting near your line, tap the piece over a hair and try again. It doesn't have to be a full cut, just an 1/8" cut will tell you if you are hitting your mark. As I've said I ended up just cutting the second one purposely long and sanding it to match. If it had been a board, I could have just trimmed tiny cuts off the end with my miter gauge rather than sanding, but I couldn't do that with the panel....I have no way to trim a tiny amount off the side of a panel other than sanding...so I had no way to sneak up on it. It's a very good point about making just a tiny cut to check against the line...that would have allowed me to dial-in pretty precisely to the scribed line. I'll remember that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I think your best bet is a crosscut sled. 19" is not wide nor is 28" long at all but may be for your saw. Maybe start a new topic and see if you can get some help with a sled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A McQuay Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 As I've said I ended up just cutting the second one purposely long and sanding it to match. If it had been a board, I could have just trimmed tiny cuts off the end with my miter gauge rather than sanding, but I couldn't do that with the panel....I have no way to trim a tiny amount off the side of a panel other than sanding...so I had no way to sneak up on it. It's a very good point about making just a tiny cut to check against the line...that would have allowed me to dial-in pretty precisely to the scribed line. I'll remember that. The tablesaw is easier but I was getting that yours is too small for the 19x28 pieces. If you can build a sled that will handle that size on your saw then that is best bet but I'm guessing it will still be a struggle. Another solution is to build a bigger table around your saw. Or make one of these: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/4283497 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 If you can build a sled that will handle that size on your saw then that is best bet but I'm guessing it will still be a struggle. Another solution is to build a bigger table around your saw. That's actually what I'm building...a cabinet for around the saw...exactly so I don't have these problems and actually have side support for a sled to work properly. =p Or make one of these: http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/4283497 Yea I actually have clamped edge guides from Rockler for running the saw along (and for guiding the router for dados). That's how I did the initial breakdown but I was never getting it perfectly square...always off like 1/32" or so. Thanks for all the discussion everyone. It's interesting and educational for me to see all the different perspectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A McQuay Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yea I actually have clamped edge guides from Rockler for running the saw along (and for guiding the router for dados). That's how I did the initial breakdown but I was never getting it perfectly square...always off like 1/32" or so. The saw guide I posted is more than a straightedge, it removes the guesswork of aligning your blade. If you can make two accurate marks on your plywood, you will be dead square and the right length, every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 If you're cleaning up band-sawn curves use a piece of the off-cut to make a perfectly contoured sanding block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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