AceHoleInOne Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Remember, if your thinning your material to get it to spray, your "wet" mil thickness will be less, (thinned material will run easier) than if applied straight from the can. The key to most water-based topcoats, a good wet coat, the finish will take on a blue tone. Spraying vertical is just wet enough before it runs, which is blue, just not as much blue as horizontal spray-out. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Remember, if your thinning your material to get it to spray, your "wet" mil thickness will be less, (thinned material will run easier) than if applied straight from the can. The key to most water-based topcoats, a good wet coat, the finish will take on a blue tone. Spraying vertical is just wet enough before it runs, which is blue, just not as much blue as horizontal spray-out. -Ace- I didn't thin this at all. After running it through the flow cup it emptied in 19 seconds. Poly per the manual should be between 20-25 seconds. (I used a stopwatch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 The mil gauge is a tool to train your eye what the proper thickness "looks" like. Just takes practice and always spray in a raking light. It helps you to keep on your wet edge. Happy spraying! -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I didn't thin this at all. After running it through the flow cup it emptied in 19 seconds. Poly per the manual should be between 20-25 seconds. (I used a stopwatch) Thats not how it works. Your sprayer manual gives you viscosity ranges for tip sets not the finish. 35-40 Ford#4 for almost all finishes is about right to spray either way upright or laying down. Generally its best to read the tech data for the finish. Sometimes the data will be incomplete especially if the manufacturer is targeting hobby folks that may be brushing. Some your left guessing like GF performance. In this case if the finish in the can is 77 you should get 35-45 ford. They don't give you any other info except 3-5 coats and % by volume. So do the math yourself. A 3 mil wet coat heated to 35 ford is .6 dry mils x5 is 3mils dry with solids split down the middle of the range. If you do any sanding its going to be less. A wet coat is 3-5 mils. When you spray door its best to error to the 3 rather than the 5. The joint between frame and panel by nature creates a capillary action. To much finish will dam the joint. When the panel changes your left with unfinished edge with broken finish dam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 You don't need to be that technical as PB mentions. You can tell a thin finish vs a thick finish how it run's off a paint stick. This isn't rocket science guys. If ya don't believe me. I'll let ya in on a little secret, you can apply most of the same stuff with a brush. Wonder why they don't give you a mil gauge and flow cup with a paint brush -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I should have my dad teach me how to spray. He did auto body work for bolt off restorations of high priced autos. His setup is all compressor and regulator based stuff. I asked him some stuff about it, gee said you don't need a cup to tell you how thick your finish is, you can just tell after doing it. I'm absorbing all of this advice and information since this is all new to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 There is a reason you can't get factory level finishes in a home shop. Everything from viscosity to temp is regulated by computer finish thickness everything. If you think you can come close by faking it your probably not being truthful. It not rocket science its spray finishing 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Since TC and I are both spraying shop cabinets, I'll ask a question if I can.. I'm still cutting my teeth on the HVLP, but best I can tell when I spray the test board before each coat, and I look at it from the side, it's either: 1. Peppered on too sparsely 2. Evenly wet looking, like a freshly mopped gym floor 3. Too wet and a bit blue. I realize there's a lot of technical nuances here, but is it safe to say that as long as I'm striving for the #2 look above, I'm in good shape? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Get a nice sized scrap of hardwood plywood and practice with that. I've found that a nice wet coat with orange peel with level nicely. I also got a mil gauge which helped at the beginning. Another good started resource for me was Jewwitt's Spray Finishing Made Simple book and Dvd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Somewhere between 2&3. Waterbased top coats look a little rough off the gun. They should level off flat and smooth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Since TC and I are both spraying shop cabinets, I'll ask a question if I can.. I'm still cutting my teeth on the HVLP, but best I can tell when I spray the test board before each coat, and I look at it from the side, it's either: 1. Peppered on too sparsely 2. Evenly wet looking, like a freshly mopped gym floor 3. Too wet and a bit blue. I realize there's a lot of technical nuances here, but is it safe to say that as long as I'm striving for the #2 look above, I'm in good shape? Every finish is going to look a little different depending on solids content. The easiest way to learn to spray doors and drawer faces is to not worry about what it looks like. You can spray a finish on a conveyer even if you are blind. Practice on plywood. Cut a sheet 18" wide. Set a metronome to a 30 count to start, set viscosity adjust gun and get a mil gauge. Test spray at a 30 count and adjust until you get 3 to 4 mils wet. The only reason you even need your eyes is to estimate distance from the panel and watch overlap. Take the time and you will spend much less time converting expensive finish to sanding dust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Every finish is going to look a little different depending on solids content. The easiest way to learn to spray doors and drawer faces is to not worry about what it looks like. You can spray a finish on a conveyer even if you are blind. Practice on plywood. Cut a sheet 18" wide. Set a metronome to a 30 count to start, set viscosity adjust gun and get a mil gauge. Test spray at a 30 count and adjust until you get 3 to 4 mils wet. The only reason you even need your eyes is to estimate distance from the panel and watch overlap. Take the time and you will spend much less time converting expensive finish to sanding dust. To clarify, the plywood is 18" by 8 feet in this test? 30 seconds to evenly cover the board in 3 horizontal passes, assuming a 6" fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 To clarify, the plywood is 18" by 8 feet in this test? 30 seconds to evenly cover the board in 3 horizontal passes, assuming a 6" fan? 18" x 8ft you can use both sides over and over. No a metronome counts in beats per minute. If you have a iPhone you can just download a phone app. The Voc school uses a fancy one from a music store for the cabinet making course. Each beat is a pass across the 18" width. It teaches your brain and arm to work together with a steady rhythm. Your never going to duplicate a flatline spray but you can come pretty close assuming you make all the necessary adjustments and don't skip steps. Don't worry about what the film looks like as long as its even and the right thickness it will layout fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ahhhhh - got it. Sounds like a really helpful way to develop your eye and muscle memory until it becomes second nature. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 you can use a cabinet scraper to remove the runs before you hit it with sand paper. helps reduce time sanding and clogging of the paper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 you can use a cabinet scraper to remove the runs before you hit it with sand paper. helps reduce time sanding and clogging of the paper. That's a good point. To think, I just sharpened all of my scrapers on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Man that's a tight fit. Those walls are not at all straight at the bottom. Good job builders who did the garage framing. Couldn't get it into place with the side of the face frame that was for scribing. I wound up putting the cabinet on its back and slicing off the scribe area with the tracksaw. I can fill it later with a piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 With customs like that that make the wall side stile a back cut scribe so you can easily cut with a router. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Jimerfield Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 With customs like that that make the wall side stile a back cut scribe so you can easily cut with a router. PB can you explain this a bit more? I have a similar problem coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 PB can you explain this a bit more? I have a similar problem coming up. Your wall side stile should be made 1 1/2 to 2" wider. Back cut it so that the part that hangs off the cabinet is only 1/2 to 3/8 thick this makes it easy to run down the wall with a trim router. Most walls are off by quite abit. For the wall side that you did not make a built in scribe you would add a scribe with a long grain joint screwed, hiding the screws behind the hinges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 Looking good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I hate walls... ran into the same issue when renovating a bathroom. Had the whole thing down to studs and found a deviaton of about 2 inches over a 10 foot run. This was brought to light after trying to fit a 74" long soaking tub in a 74.5" space. One side touching the wall, The other with a 3/4" gap Your cabinet looks great. How many hours do you think you have into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I have about 16-18 hours of working on the cabinet. About 6 of those hours were puttering around and figuring out the next piece. Now that I have gone through 1 in the figuring out part. It should cut down in time drastically. Prior to building I did a few hours worth of research and design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I have about 16-18 hours of working on the cabinet. About 6 of those hours were puttering around and figuring out the next piece. Now that I have gone through 1 in the figuring out part. It should cut down in time drastically. Prior to building I did a few hours worth of research and design. You will have it down in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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