bgreenb

Chest of drawers for (impending) son

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Trip, which filler do you use. I tried timbermate once and it still smells like gasoline months later.

(Sorry to hijack with a question)

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RTFM… :)

 

West Applications Guides are your friend:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/product-selection-chart/

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/techniques-materials/

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/additive-selection-guide/

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-publications-2/

 

 

Filling knots: graphite additive (423).

 

I have every filler and every filler has it's place:

General shop use: 405

Bent lams: 403

DIY: 406, 410

Boatyard: 404, 407, 406

Reinforcing end-grain fasteners: 404, 406

See chart: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/filler-selection-guide/

 

You want to use a card or cabinet scraper on adhesives, not sanding disks...

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Trip, which filler do you use. I tried timbermate once and it still smells like gasoline months later.

(Sorry to hijack with a question)

timbermate has both a water and oil based product. the water based smells like bandaids and works fine.

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I use the TM's WB product all the time, it’s great…  BUT.... It's not capable of structural repair and bridging large gaps. It also shrinks-back over time, so the knot you fill in January will look like a divot in February...

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Damn - how'd I miss this thread up until now.

 

1. Great job so far

2. The side/edge grain of flame/curly wood can be under-appreciated.  Yours will look AWESOME.  You can already tell.

3. Seems you and I both have a boy due at the end of April....I don't plan on showing my wife your progress.

 

Thanks a lot for the compliments!  I do absolutely love the side grain as well. It makes me so nervous to plane/scrape though, I've had a ton of problems with tear out.  I think I have it under control now, but it took a lot of practice.  Also, congrats on your new addition too!  Maybe they will be friends on woodtalkonline in like 2035 or so...

 

timbermate has both a water and oil based product. the water based smells like bandaids and works fine.

 

Yup I use the timbermate water based and love it.  And this post just did me a huge favor - for a couple years now I've been trying to place that smell, and you're dead on, it's absolutely band aids!

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404’s the wrong tool for the job – if you need a bulking agent to fill knots, use one of the faring fillers… You’ll probably get away with it if you scrape back before it cures… Once fully cured, it’s about as hard as cement… At that point, risk of damaging surrounding stock rises greatly…

 

 

RTFM… :)

 

Filling knots: graphite additive (423).

 

I have every filler and every filler has it's place:

General shop use: 405

Bent lams: 403

DIY: 406, 410

Boatyard: 404, 407, 406

Reinforcing end-grain fasteners: 404, 406

See chart: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/filler-selection-guide/

 

You want to use a card or cabinet scraper on adhesives, not sanding disks...

 

Thanks for all this info Trip.  Would you mind elaborating on the "damage surrounding stock" point?  The only reason I use 404 is because that's what I've seen Marc used and (I believe) what he used on his filling knots instructional video.  It has seemed to work fine on the few projects I've used it for, I just put it through the planer taking very light passes until it's level (I know that risks my planer blades but taking light passes seems to have done the trick).

 

I will pick up some 423 and bookmark that selection guide.

 

Edit:  I just rewatched Marc's video, and he did not use any filler for filling knots.  My mistake.  I only used a tiny bit of filler (maybe a half teaspoon) here, so I don't expect that it will cause any problems, but this is good to know for the future.

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I use the TM's WB product all the time, it’s great…  BUT.... It's not capable of structural repair and bridging large gaps. It also shrinks-back over time, so the knot you fill in January will look like a divot in February...

 

Yeah, I should have been clear, when I say small knots, I mean using it like a middle aged woman on her fine lines and wrinkles, not structural repair.  

 

As others have said, thanks for your help demistifying the West System.  

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Thanks for all this info Trip.  Would you mind elaborating on the "damage surrounding stock" point?  The only reason I use 404 is because that's what I've seen Marc used and (I believe) what he used on his filling knots instructional video.  It has seemed to work fine on the few projects I've used it for, I just put it through the planer taking very light passes until it's level (I know that risks my planer blades but taking light passes seems to have done the trick).

 

 

If I can speak for Trip, what I think he means is the stuff dries so hard and thoroughly that you risk some tear out when trying to scrape it away.  It will literally take the wood with it.   Once he gets back from his caffeine injection maybe Trip will clarify.  

 

That is why I sand, even thought it is the wrong tool for the job, takes forever, and you kill at a lot of discs.  I am going to order some of the 423 and keep on the shelf.  

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If I can speak for Trip, what I think he means is the stuff dries so hard and thoroughly that you risk some tear out when trying to scrape it away.  It will literally take the wood with it.   Once he gets back from his caffeine injection maybe Trip will clarify.  

 

That is why I sand, even thought it is the wrong tool for the job, takes forever, and you kill at a lot of discs.  I am going to order some of the 423 and keep in the shelf.  

 

Gotcha.  Yeah I typically pour the epoxy into the knot until it's overflowing, then I leave it for an hour or so until it's clearly starting to cure (much thicker), then I scrape it with a piece of cardboard or scrap to try to level it with the surface as much as I can, to save myself/my planer the effort later.

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==>If I can speak for Trip

Only if you got hammered at lunch...

 

==>you risk some tear out when trying to scrape it away.  It will literally take the wood with it.
The underlying issue is that a 404 bonding mix it cures so hard, it really is like stone… Even with abrasives, you’ll end-up dishing the surrounding stock trying to level the epoxy slug… By far the best way to deal with it is let it dry for about 12hrs and use a card scraper… At 12hrs, the adhesive’s dry and hard enough to scrape cleanly…. I say 12hrs, it’s kind of ‘overnight drying’ --- depends on ambient conditions... Anywhere from 6hrs to say 18hrs…

 

Notes:

404-blend uses: For bonding hardware, through hull fittings, etc the stuff is great… Have a screw, SPAX or lag bolt you want to secure in end-grain – just over-bore a pilot, fill it with 404-blend, let it cure, drill a new pilot for the fastener in the 404-plug and you’re done… It’ll hold better than cross-grain fastening… Same for reinforcing plywood, particle board, MDF, etc to hold fasteners…  Its great stuff for all manner of DIY or reinforcing fasteners in sheet goods…

 

Folks should download some of the application notes from the links I posted above... Epoxy with the right blending fillers is really rather amazing stuff... The varying applications will open your eyes to some unique solutions for DIY problems…

 

If you need exotic adhesives for working carbon-fiber lams, Gougeon’s Pro-Set is another source: http://prosetepoxy.com/high-tech

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==>If I can speak for Trip

Only if you got hammered at lunch...

 

 

Two pints of IPA and an espresso.  kind of a ying and yang thing.  Oh, and a salad.  We all need our roughage.  

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Yea, should have added a smiley... We don't drink at lunch... Funny, we used to... But at some point, it just stopped... Actually, the fancy lunches just kind of went away. Now we just put them on for board meetings or analyst visits... The jibes about caffeine are true: I consume a large amount of caffeine... My better-half won't let me have a fridge in my shop, but I can have one in my office to support my diet-coke habit... Go figure?

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Yea, should have added a smiley... We don't drink at lunch... Funny, we used to... But at some point, it just stopped... Actually, the fancy lunches just kind of went away. Now we just put them on for board meetings or analyst visits... The jibes about caffeine are true: I consume a large amount of caffeine... My better-half won't let me have a fridge in my shop, but I can have one in my office to support my diet-coke habit... Go figure?

 

 

OP - Sorry to hijack and go off topic but hopefully this is entertaining enough....

  • I think it was Gordon Ramsey who opened a restaurant in NY and found New Yorkers don't drink at lunch nearly as much as Londoners.... it nearly sank the restaurant
  • We aren't allowed to have personal refrigerators, or coffee pots, or space heaters in our offices.  Someone started a fire with a space heater and that was that.  We do have a communal fridge but it is always packed with 15 bottles of ketchup and coffee creamer because everyone brings their own
  • My first year out of college I worked for Arthur Andersen.... we had a team outing once a month (at least), mostly at Ruth's Chris steak house (mmmm butter)....  That is when I learned people actually do order an appetizer, an entree and a dessert all in one meal.  I learned about creme brulee gained 25lbs that first year.  

 

Ok, back to the show.  

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No worries about the hijacks - I've enjoyed them!

 

I blame those of you who are about 15 years older than I am (i.e., those who came of professional age in the 80's).  All those 3 martini lunches and coke fueled afternoons made the pendulum swing too far the other way.  Damn you!

 

:angry:  :D

 

Reminds me of Alan from the hangover

 

(language warning if you're at work)

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Trip. I can't believe all the detail and info on the west systems webpage. One of the documents was 'other uses' or something along those lines. Making jigs to repair rotted windowsills, post rail repair, lamination, auto body repair, etc... I hadn't any idea epoxy was so versatile. And the detail from the company is top notch. One whole article was just on using card scrapers to fix hardened epoxy drips.

The links (or pdf's) might be useful on the forums reference material section.

Sorry BGreen...back to the chest!

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==>We aren't allowed to have personal refrigerators, or coffee pots, or space heaters in our offices

Neither are we... It's good to be the King*.... or a member of the Sr. Staff.... :)

 

 

 

 

*Anyone?

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No worries about the hijacks - I've enjoyed them!

 

I blame those of you who are about 15 years older than I am (i.e., those who came of professional age in the 80's).  All those 3 martini lunches and coke fueled afternoons made the pendulum swing too far the other way.  Damn you!

 

:angry:  :D

 

Reminds me of Alan from the hangover

 

(language warning if you're at work)

 

I saw this movie but don't remember that part. That's a hoot

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I am an idea man Chuck*,

but I have no idea what you are talking about

 

 

*hint: mayonaise, tuna

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Big weekend in the shop.  Got a few hours in the shop both afternoons and was able to make some decent progress.  When we left off, I had just finished cutting the drawer fronts to final dimension.  The drawer fronts are rabbetted, so the next step was cutting the rabbets.  I used my dado set and an auxiliary fence to cut a 9/16x1/4" rabbet on the top and sides of each drawer front:

 

C312293A-02F9-451C-B1FA-2AB4A3CD8A6A_zps

 

8682BCCD-AB14-4080-8BC4-C6FAEC30D0BD_zps

 

After cutting the rabbets, I test fit each drawer in its drawer pocket.  I left about 1/16" of play side to side and 1/8" top to bottom (more like 1/4" on the bottom drawer since it's so wide and I'm building this thing in winter).  Everything fit well, so I proceeded to cut the sides and backs to final size.  I waited to do that until this point so that I could cut them directly to the size of the drawer front "non rabbetted" and get it dead on.  Here are the five drawers ready for joinery:

 

ADC9D54D-8A6C-45D1-BC21-1C0673297920_zps

 

As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm using my Leigh dovetail jig for cutting the drawer dovetails.  I simply don't have the time (or, let's be honest, the skill) to hand cut all these dovetails.  I'm using half blind dovetails for all of the joinery to save time producing a different setup for the rear joints.  The cutting went reasonably smoothly, though it did take a bit more fine tuning than usual.  Not sure if I was just being sloppy or what, but it took a while to get the fit completely right, and even then I still ended up with the joints on the two small drawers being a bit looser than I wanted.  I will use epoxy for those joints.  Here's the jig setup and the resulting mess (I see an OF1400 and CT26 in my future...)

 

00237C8C-4301-482E-8173-715EBDD6BA33_zps

 

902C30A2-E991-4C5B-9473-106AD8B8EBF1_zps

 

And all the drawer parts ready to go:

 

93B539E4-7692-4DC3-B82F-D1CDED809B91_zps

 

 

 

I found another nice use for the drum sander in my workflow.  Setting up the dovetail jig requires quite a bit of fine tuning.  You have to deal with fine tuning in two dimensions.  First the actual fit of the joint, and second the "flushness" (making sure the tails seat flush with the pin board).  The drum sander allowed me to forget about the latter part.  I just left them a bit proud and put all the drawer sides a couple passes through the drum sander at 80 grit to bring them down a tiny bit in thickness.  This had the added benefit of cleaning up any tearout at the shoulder.

 

3AFB67E7-C55A-49AF-85FD-0CD692C3A4BB_zps

 

 

I dry fit the drawers and got my rough look at the finished product (no bracket base - I had removed it for sanding):

 

D1199126-6BE0-4B46-B48C-9A7E568C0958_zps

 

That was pretty much the extent of my work on Saturday.  I made more progress on Sunday and have a few photos from that as well.  Gonna upload them shortly and should have another update later today.

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