wouldwurker Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Those Leigh jigs do a great job. I wouldn't even put them in the same category as the old PC 1/2 blind jigs with equal sized tails/pins. Those look gorgeous and you did great work. Shoot, setting up and dialing in the darn machine is an art in and of itself. Can't wait to see that flame pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Those Leigh jigs do a great job. I wouldn't even put them in the same category as the old PC 1/2 blind jigs with equal sized tails/pins. Those look gorgeous and you did great work. Shoot, setting up and dialing in the darn machine is an art in and of itself. Can't wait to see that flame pop. Thanks Vinny. Yeah the Leigh jig is pretty awesome in terms of trying to get a hand cut look with machine cut dovetails. The more drawers you're doing, the more the time savings adds up obviously. I'd say it took me about 3 hours to cut all the joinery, and probably a third of it was just getting the machine set up and dialed in. As I said in an earlier post, if I could go back I'd probably save the money on the jig and buy something else, but at times like these I'm glad I have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Exquisite joinery there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 On Sunday I got started with drawer bottoms. I wrestled with this for a while. I had decided to use plywood mainly because I didn't want to have to deal with the cross grain joint of the drawer guide pocket attached to the underside of a solid wood bottom. So I'm going with captured plywood. But then I went and bought a sheet of 1/4" birch ply on Saturday and was thoroughly dissatisfied. This was not crappy big box ply - I bought it from a reputable plywood dealer from whom I've bought plenty of plywood in the past. Anyway, it seemed so damn thin. I measured with calipers and it kept bouncing back and forth between 11/64 and 3/16. I know that plywood is always short of nominal thickness, but a full 1/16"?? In the end I decided to use the 1/4 ply for the two top drawers since they're about half the size, and then I bought a sheet of 1/2" ply for the three larger drawers this morning. This thing will only hold clothes, so I guess sagging isn't a huge issue, but with captured ply that I can't just slide out later, I wanted to leave nothing to chance and go for the most possible durability. So the next step was cutting the grooves for the drawer bottoms. I used a regular full kerf blade to do the 3/16" grooves on the top drawers (just did about a pass and a half) and set up the dado stack to do the 15/32" grooves on the larger drawers. Here are the two top drawers, with one of them dry fit: Next I routed the thumbnail profiles on all the drawer fronts. I went back and forth on this with a few test boards. I started by thinking I'd go with just a roundover because I liked the simplicity better and felt that the figure on the drawer fronts would speak itself. But the thumbnail looked so nice on the original piece that I decided to go for it. To be honest, I kind of regret it. Not a huge deal, I think it still looks nice, but if I could go back I would probably just do a simple roundover or clean chamfer. In any case, I did these on my router table with a Freud quadra cut bit. Highly recommend those quadra cut bits - they cut very very cleanly - I had no tearout whatsoever even on this wild grain, and just a little burning that was easily cleaned up with some hand sanding. Then it was time for some sanding. I sanded the insides of all the drawers to 150 and the outsides I just gave a thorough sanding to 120, just to remove the marks from the drum sander. God I hate sanding, and I shudder to think how much of it I have left. Once again, I see a 150/3 and CT26 in my future. In any case, I returned to my basement glue up room last night to get started with assembly. I glued up the two small drawers and one of the larger drawers (I had enough 1/2 birch ply in my shop to cut one larger drawer bottom before buying the second sheet today). I used west systems epoxy for this glue up both for the open time and for gap filling on a couple of the looser joints on the top drawers - I used 404 filler, which I think was appropriate after reading Trip's chart from a few days ago. I used regular titebond for the drawer bottom grooves. Everything came together nice and square: I'll probably get these three drawers cleaned up before I move on to assembling the other drawers. Probably not the most efficient way to do it, but I'm anxious to see a couple of the drawers fit into the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 This is progressing nicely. Thanks for sharing the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 This is progressing nicely. Thanks for sharing the experience. Thanks a lot! I'm having fun journaling it. I cleaned up the three glued up drawers last night - no pics of the process though. Tonight I'm hoping to glue up the other two drawers if I can get an hour or so in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Quick update, as I got a little bit of time in the shop last night. The drawers are all glued up and they fit fine in the case. I might end up relieving a little material on the drawer sides or the inside of the case just in case the case side ever cups or anything I'll still be able to move the drawers. Since the drawer fronts are rabbetted and I'm using center drawer runners underneath the drawers, it doesn't matter if they're a little loose. Here's a pic of the drawers fitted into the case: One realization I've had is that rabbetted drawers are not easier than flush drawers, and in some ways they are even harder. I'm not looking forward to any kind of adjustments I have to make on the drawer sides, as that front lip gets in the way of every handplane stroke. Not to mention cleaning up the pins is going to be a PIA. If I ever do rabbetted drawers again, I will do it by creating drawer boxes and then attaching false fronts. That would also solve the issue of the kind of brittle/weak thumbnail edge that I described in a previous post. Live and learn I suppose. Anyway, I had about an hour in the shop last night and decided to mock up a prototype of the drawer runner system. I'm basically using the system Marc demonstrates in his chest of drawers build, with a runner ("male") portion attached to the web frame and a corresponding "female" portion attached to the underside of the drawer. So I mocked up each portion and double stick taped it to its eventual location. It worked great, but I got a little concerned about the drawer cantilevering out of the case as you pull it out since the drawer fronts are so much heavier. I ended up putting a 5* bevel on the runner mechanism to act like a sliding dovetail that will keep the drawer bottom anchored to the web frame as you pull it out. I've seen that done on a lot of (crap) commercial furniture as well and figured I'd try it here. Here's a pic of the mechanism (ignore the roughness of the joint, I just roughed it out with a regular table saw blade): I was happy with the way it all worked out and am hoping to get all the drawer guides done and installed on Saturday. Things yet to be decided: Not sure whether I will end up going with the bevel or not. I'd like to have something to keep the drawer from cantilevering, but I also worry about the excess friction this will generate on the drawer guide as the drawer "wants" to cantilever out and the male and female parts press against each other (heh). Not sure how I'm going to attach the guides/runners. My first instinct was to glue them, but I'm a bit nervous about making that connection permanent. Thinking long term, as these things get used and the runners "wear" a bit, maybe it would be good to be able to replace those mechanisms eventually. I might just use screws here. Or maybe glue one part and screw the other part and figure I can always replace just one side of the mechanism. Anyway just some things I'm thinking about as I put sanding off as long as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Great progress!! So what are you thinking in terms of finish (once you get to that point)? I'm also making a desk - maple, with tiger maple for the drawer fronts. My daughter wants it stained (or dyed) a darkish-brown to match something else. I want to keep it natural. We might end up compromising with the top dyed and the pedestal and drawers left natural - we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Great progress!! So what are you thinking in terms of finish (once you get to that point)? I'm also making a desk - maple, with tiger maple for the drawer fronts. My daughter wants it stained (or dyed) a darkish-brown to match something else. I want to keep it natural. We might end up compromising with the top dyed and the pedestal and drawers left natural - we'll see. Thanks! I was actually talking a bit in the chat room about this yesterday. I'm going to start doing some test boards next week to make final decisions. Here's what I'm thinking: 1. Regarding popping the grain with dye, I'm going to do some test boards and see what it looks like, but I doubt I'll end up doing it because I just see so much potential for my screwing it up and having it look bad, plus it complicates the process and I need to get this thing done before the baby comes. But if the test boards look good enough it might convince me. 2. I'm definitely going to put at least one coat of oil based finish on it, probably arm r seal satin. I really think nothing compares to an oil based finish in terms of looks. 3. As a final top coat, I had originally wanted to try spraying lacquer or shellac. I don't have a sprayer, but thought about using this as an excuse to buy one. I like the idea of having a nice repairable finish, given that this piece will be in a child's room. A hall table I built a few years ago and finished with Arm R Seal has a few scratches in it and it drives me nuts because I know I can't really fix it without stripping. It would be nice to just rub a little lacquer thinner/DNA on it and recoat. But I think Eric convinced me yesterday to just let it go. "Character." And something to the effect of "you'll spend your whole life refinishing if you worry about every little scratch." Plus I only have a month and change to finish and I'm not sure I really want to try to dive in and perfect a whole new technique in that time frame. So, bottom line, in all likelihood I will end up just using Arm R Seal satin. It looks great, it's easy, and I'm comfortable applying it For the inside of the case and insides of the drawers I will probably use a rattle can of shellac, just because I don't want an oil finish off gassing into my kid's clothes. (I know you didn't ask for a 1000 word essay, but you got one.) Are you doing a build journal on the desk? If not I'd love to check out the final product pics. Love to see what another local guy is producing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 So I guess you've put a lot of thought into it. I like the Arm-r-Seal decision. I'm with Eric on letting it go. You could always get a piece of glass cut to protect the top. I'll probably also use A-R-S on mine....just need to haggle with the daughter on the stain/dye. I did have some luck a while back with using Transtint in shellac to pop the grain in some quilted maple. It's an easy technique. I haven't been doing a journal, no. I do have some assorted pictures, but my time in the shop is so sporadic that when I get time, I don't think of tracking the progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I did have some luck a while back with using Transtint in shellac to pop the grain in some quilted maple. It's an easy technique. Yeah I think this is what I was going to try - seems like the most "no fuss" way to get the desired result. I have gallon of zinsser sealcoat that I should probably use the rest of anyway. Like I said I will probably start test boards next week - I want to decide on the finish before I build the top, because I don't want the top panel sitting around for a while waiting for finish, just begging to cup. It's nice to see the light at the end of the tunnel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I've probably seen that movie over a hundred times in its entirety by now. And if it's possible to be aroused by a cartoon...let's just say both princesses of Arrendale do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have a four year old daughter. M'kay? A hundred times...you're a lightweight. That was just appetizers around here. The only thing that's aroused in me at this point is a Hulk-like anger and the urge to crush things with my bare hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have a four year old daughter. M'kay? A hundred times...you're a lightweight. That was just appetizers around here. The only thing that's aroused in me at this point is a Hulk-like anger and the urge to crush things with my bare hands. You can hide it all you want, you get all giddy when that movie comes on. You probably own a Frozen onesie, drink from your Olaf coffee mug, and listen to the soundtrack in your shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Not only does my teen daughter like that movie, but so does my wife - who has the soundtrack on her smartphone - and she sings along whenever she feels like it. I tell her to let it go, but it falls on deaf ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have a four year old daughter. M'kay? A hundred times...you're a lightweight. That was just appetizers around here. The only thing that's aroused in me at this point is a Hulk-like anger and the urge to crush things with my bare hands. You can hide it all you want, you get all giddy when that movie comes on. You probably own a Frozen onesie, drink from your Olaf coffee mug, and listen to the soundtrack in your shop. Oh yah. Deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want the "Let it Go" sequence up on that new 51 inch plasma 24/7/365. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Not only does my teen daughter like that movie, but so does my wife - who has the soundtrack on her smartphone - and she sings along whenever she feels like it. I tell her to let it go, but it falls on deaf ears. Haha. Yup. My two year old daughter has me sing let it go to her before bed every single night. I'll be honest, I actually like the song. No shame here. I was supposed to bring her to Frozen on Ice at the garden. We had awesome tickets. And of course it was for the day of one of the huge storms and the show got canceled. Thankfully she's not old enough to really understand anyway, so I didn't have to deal with the disappointment (other than my own...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'm a bit late to the game... The VRS (vacuum router support) for your Leigh Jig is worth the price. I was avoiding my jig because of the dust and chips being thrown all over me. With the VRS somewhere around 90% of the mess is controlled. It seems better when doing through DTs than when doing half-blind DTs, but nonetheless...it makes using the jig more pleasurable to use. I have also been doing numerous test pieces for curly maple over the last week or two. The dye and sand methods for popping hte grain seem problematic to me because of the inside corners of the piece I'm working on. If you're not wanting to do a dye and sand procedure to pop the grain, and you're looking for a process which mostly keeps the natural maple color and utilizes an oil and top-coat, you could try Watco "teak oil finish" and then top coat with lacquer or arm-r-seal (after 72 hrs.). I tried BLO, tung, and the "teak oil" (in addition to all kinds of dye/shellac and sand combos) and I found that the teak stuff gave me more contrast. The BLO and tung oils helped to retain the natural color but provided less contrast than the teak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'm a bit late to the game... The VRS (vacuum router support) for your Leigh Jig is worth the price. I was avoiding my jig because of the dust and chips being thrown all over me. With the VRS somewhere around 90% of the mess is controlled. It seems better when doing through DTs than when doing half-blind DTs, but nonetheless...it makes using the jig more pleasurable to use. I have also been doing numerous test pieces for curly maple over the last week or two. The dye and sand methods for popping hte grain seem problematic to me because of the inside corners of the piece I'm working on. If you're not wanting to do a dye and sand procedure to pop the grain, and you're looking for a process which mostly keeps the natural maple color and utilizes an oil and top-coat, you could try Watco "teak oil finish" and then top coat with lacquer or arm-r-seal (after 72 hrs.). I tried BLO, tung, and the "teak oil" (in addition to all kinds of dye/shellac and sand combos) and I found that the teak stuff gave me more contrast. The BLO and tung oils helped to retain the natural color but provided less contrast than the teak. Thanks Dave. I actually do have the VRS attachment to the leigh jig, but I find that it gets in the way and makes it hard to see what I'm doing, which makes me kind of nervous. I use it from time to time but most of the time just go without and deal with the mess. I will take a look at the Watco stuff. I do like their danish oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 My approach to popping curly maple is one wet coat of natural Watco then wipe after 10 minutes, spray a sealer coat of blonde shellac after 24-36 hours, and finish w a sprayed waterbourne satin finish. Least amount of yellowing but still makes the grain stand out. Your project is looking great ! An osselating tool like the Fein Multimax is handy to sand those sides with the Half blind dovetails. I use the applied drawer fronts whenever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Top to bottom: BLO + Arm-R-Seal tung oil (no top coat yet) Seal-A-Cell + Arm-R Watco Teak Oil Finish + Deft rattle-can lacquer http:// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 If that's your possible choices the last 2 are winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Top to bottom: BLO + Arm-R-Seal tung oil (no top coat yet) Seal-A-Cell + Arm-R Watco Teak Oil Finish + Deft rattle-can lacquer http:// Yeah I definitely see the most contrast in the last one. I actually think I might like the tung oil one the best even with the lack of contrast! Definitely gonna have to do some test boards of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 My approach to popping curly maple is one wet coat of natural Watco then wipe after 10 minutes, spray a sealer coat of blonde shellac after 24-36 hours, and finish w a sprayed waterbourne satin finish. Least amount of yellowing but still makes the grain stand out. Your project is looking great ! An osselating tool like the Fein Multimax is handy to sand those sides with the Half blind dovetails. I use the applied drawer fronts whenever possible. Great call on the multitool Steve! Can't believe I didn't think of that. I have the Bosch one - I will give that a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.