I bought my last cheap tool

[Mister Pants]

[*]Cheap, fast and embarrassingly bad. i.e. You buy a Buck Brothers plane from Lowe's.

Hey I made that mistake (before I got bit by the woodworking bug), also picked up one of those ten dollar Stanley block planes from Lowe's or Home Depot (the one with the red cap and what I swear is a pot metal iron). First time I used the BB plane the lever adjuster snapped right off. Mind you when I was truing up the planes I use, I came across it, trued it and the Stanley up and got pretty good shavings with them. Not as good as my good planes mind you, but pretty darn good for a BORG pos

[gardnesd]

Since I started the post I'll change cheap to poor quality(which I think was described in the original post). However, I've noticed that they usually, not always go hand in hand. I also don't think it was a knee jerk reaction(also opined in the original post but maybe not read).. Lots of drive by posting.

[ztifpatrick]

The last straw. I bought a stanley hand saw miter box at lowes the other day. It will cut an 8 inch board. But, that doesn't necessarily mean the cut is straight. What a pos. I'm done looking for "deals". Looks like HF has a nice one, just kidding.

It is amazing the range of responses this type of issue can generate. There are people who will always aim for quality and others that always aim for price. Neither group want to waste money,but at either extreme it's possible and almost guaranteed at the cheap end. We live in an age where "things" can be made for little or nothing. The landfills are full of yesterdays shiny objects that had the look but no substance. People have been trained to expect less or maybe just dumbed down. One thing woodworking has done for me is to make it almost impossible to buy furniture in the vast majority of stores, because they have mastered the finish, but underneath it just garbage and will berak the first time it's tested. The masses pack their cars with boxes and go home certain that they just bought a quality peice because the advertising said so . What ever happened to common sense? Unfortunately you get what you pay for.

[dbro]

This is a great topic!

In my mind, the main issue to resolve with yourself when facing any buying decision is balancing the cost/investment of hard earned cash (or future hard-earned cash via debt with increasing interest!) with the value/pleasure you get out of the tool. If you're not going to enjoy using the tool because it's poor quality, difficult to use, breaks frequently, etc., then don't buy it.

Sometimes the immediate cash-strapped need (optimizing for the COST and TIME factors mentioned by Rob H above) overrules your sense of value (QUALITY), and I think that's ok. I still kind of regret my $19.99 Home Depot 14" Backsaw purchase, but I needed something to cut with urgently when I bought it (I forget what). Hey, it still cut wood for me this morning so I can't complain too loudly. I can tell you I am eyeing the QUALITY side of the equation now for a replacement.

The other difficulty people like me (ie., the hobbyist) face is measuring the value of a high-end tool. We're building stuff for fun. How much more fun will the Lie-Nielsen plane be to use, compared with the Veritas? Or how about a re-tuned Stanley? I know, the LN and Veritas planes are nice! But my re-tuned Stanley No 5 did a fine job for me this morning.

I figure the one thing most of us hobbyists have on our side is time (if you have money on your side please send me some nice tools! ). Time to save up for the right tool, or time to invest in reconditioning a flea market/eBay find. In the end you'll be happier and have a better sense of satisfaction from your woodworking.

[John Anderson]

pay low, pay often

[Mike G]

Call me frugal, I suppose.

My equipment purchases have taken almost 4 years now, and I'm far from done. I have the basics; table saw, jointer, planer, drill press, router table, and band saw.

I've spaced them out because I knew that I would be keeping them for a few years, so I saved my money, and bought the best stuff for the type of work I want to do. I did not buy the best of the best, but I didn't buy the junk, either. I bought middle of the road on some, and slightly higher on others. I have gotten some fantastic deals, and if I hadn't saved a bit, and trusted the guy at my local tool dealer, I'd be using junk.

[WoodDoesntTalkBack]

The last straw. I bought a stanley hand saw miter box at lowes the other day. It will cut an 8 inch board. But, that doesn't necessarily mean the cut is straight. What a pos. I'm done looking for "deals". Looks like HF has a nice one, just kidding.

I learned this lesson at a young age, then forgot it, then learned it again... the hard way. I was taught wood working skills as a child, but then drifted towards the automotive world so when I was starting out working on cars and had my own job, and my Dad didn't have a random tool I needed, I would go out looking and decide on the "deal" as opposed to the one that was more expensive. Well, after breaking a few ratchets and slamming my knuckles off the ground or into sharp points on the vehicles, and killing an angle grinder or two, I started purchasing the higher priced/higher quality tools. They have far outlasted the cheap stuff and are still going strong. I wish I would have listened to my Dad years before and bought the quality stuff as opposed to the things that would save a few bucks. BTW, I hear HF and Menards have some great sales going for the holidays, you may want to check those out. hahaha

[CaptFerd]

I learnt my lesson early on in my woodworking. I had a shop filled with Sears Craftman equipment. The table saw was replaced 3 times before I got one that would hold the blade above the table. The band saw was unusable. I had the drill press, scroll saw, jointer all kinds of hand tools I could go on and on. I almost gave up wood working till I finally realized that it was the sears junk I was using that was making my projects so difficult to make. I dont have a lot of money to buy things twice so when I do buy equipment its something thats going to be passed down a generation or two.

[Mike G]

I see a lot of people don't like Craftsman tools.

While I generally agree when it comes to the woodworking tools, I have to say I love my Craftsman cabinet saw. I cannot remmber the model number off the top of my head.

My family bought it for me for Christmas in 2006, after my wife watched me struggle with my old contractor type tablesaw. I actually was saving to buy a Delta cabinet saw. My only complaint is that it is slightly underpowered. Other than that, it is a very good saw.

All of the rest of my equipment came from a local tool dealer. No other Craftsman stuff.

[tim0625]

Alright Community....hellllp....I have an opportunity to purchase a Dewalt woodworkers table saw - DW746 that comes with 4 homemade sleds, an out feed table, and a router mounted in a fixed base to the right on the wooden part of the table saw table. Also with the deal is a heavy metal tenoning jig. He is asking $500 for everything. Plz give advice on the price and if you have one of these, some feed back on the saw. Ok.....even if you DON'T have one of these...please give me an opinion. I know a really good new table saw is some bucks and I can't do that just now but this saw that's for sale has minimal wear on it. The fence system is really tight, good horsepower on the motor, and the guy has added a router to the set up that has an solid oak cabinet built under it with drawers. Ok...it's not a $4K Powermatic...now THAT would be sweet but for the price, I'm thinking it's a good mid priced saw ($1300 original retail) with good features that would serve me well for many years until the inevitable upgrade. HELP!! Thanks

Tim

[jhl.verona]

Tim, I know you're trying to be polite, tacking your question on to this thread, but I think you'll have more joy if you open a new thread in the Normite City forum. They're free, and I think there are some left

Otherwise, we end up with two questions in the same thread, which is a bit tricky to answer... especially considering the title of this thread.

John

Alright Community....hellllp....I have an opportunity to purchase a Dewalt woodworkers table saw - DW746 that comes with 4 homemade sleds, an out feed table, and a router mounted in a fixed base to the right on the wooden part of the table saw table. Also with the deal is a heavy metal tenoning jig. He is asking $500 for everything. Plz give advice on the price and if you have one of these, some feed back on the saw. Ok.....even if you DON'T have one of these...please give me an opinion. I know a really good new table saw is some bucks and I can't do that just now but this saw that's for sale has minimal wear on it. The fence system is really tight, good horsepower on the motor, and the guy has added a router to the set up that has an solid oak cabinet built under it with drawers. Ok...it's not a $4K Powermatic...now THAT would be sweet but for the price, I'm thinking it's a good mid priced saw ($1300 original retail) with good features that would serve me well for many years until the inevitable upgrade. HELP!! Thanks

Tim

[tim0625]

Sorry John...new poster. Since everyone is talking tool quality, I was hoping in the midst of the flurry, someone

may have an opinion on the saw. I'm hoping to maximize an opportunity if it really is a good one. What do you think about it all? Please look in Normite City. Thx

Tim

[jet]

from Lowes ??- what could be better. Take it back for a refund

[Henjam48]

I am new to woodworking, but as a Keyboard Player for 20 years, I am fond of the saying, "It is better to have yesterday's Flagship m, than todays 2nd Rate Model.

BUT I like to have lots of Drills so I am not continually changing bits in the middle of a job. I went shopping for the most powerful Drill I could afford to drive 125mm Galvanised Batten screws into treated pine for a landscaping project. All the big brand name models were Twice the price of the Drill I eventually bought. The, Hitachi's, Ryobi's, Makita's..etc were surely superiour quality, but the "Ozito" I eventually purchased had a 3 year replacement warranty. The best the of the others could only offer a 2 year repair Warranty.

I bought a router off a clearance table for $50 a year ago. It's....OK. Now I am able to afford the Model I've had my eye on. I will keep the cheapie as a loaner as per the wise comment further up the page.

[jHop]

I have the same saw as the OP. I don't mind it, as I plan from the beginning to lose a little of the board in squaring up the cut. I use it a lot for cutting blanks down to size for use on the lathe, so it hasn't affected me too much. I refuse to use if for dovetails, however. I learned, through the process of trying to use it, what it's capabilities were, and anything requiring *absolute* accuracy is not in it's realm.

But that's what the other tools come to the party for. The really good stuff comes out to fix the mistakes. (Sometimes, it's just to justify purchasing the good stuff. Sometimes, it's because I like the challenge. Sometimes it's because I don't have the funds to buy the best right off, and have to buy the best I can afford. Unlike Paul-Marcel, I do have two teens to worry about stapling shoes to, and need to put gas in the tank for the wife to get to her day job.)

I do have to say I finally got my DW735 off layaway, and I heartily recommend to anybody on a budget to use layaway, if they can find someone who offers such a policy. My local Woodcraft offered me a 90 day layaway option, but I think that might have been because I braved a winter storm to get there. The store I purchased the planer from did not have a time limit on the layaway, as long as I made regular payments on it. (they even threw in a set of planer knives, since I purchased it at the right time. It was that or the planer stand, which would not fit into the car.)

On an aside, one of the funniest things I ever saw was at a gas station a few years ago: somebody pulled their canary yellow Hummer 2 up to one pump, and had a fire-engine-red Lamborgini on a trailer at the second pump. Both pumps were running. I was driving by, so I didn't see if the bill was three or four figures.