Bosch getting sued by sawstop


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Every interview I have listened to with the Sawstop owner leaves me thinking he is a complete douche.  I can honestly say I have no desire to own one of his products.  If human safety was truly is utmost concern as he will tout from behind a microphone he would have no problem with this. 

 

The Bosch system looks much better than the sawstop too.  Not ruining $150 worth of blade and an expensive cartridge in the event of a touch is nice. 

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Don't take this thread where it's destined to go if you don't want it locked down.  Keep it civilized and politics-free.

 

Thanks,

 

Management

 

Ha...my first thought just on reading the title was "oh damn I need some popcorn for this show".

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Every interview I have listened to with the Sawstop owner leaves me thinking he is a complete douche.  I can honestly say I have no desire to own one of his products.  If human safety was truly is utmost concern as he will tout from behind a microphone he would have no problem with this. 

 

The Bosch system looks much better than the sawstop too.  Not ruining $150 worth of blade and an expensive cartridge in the event of a touch is nice. 

I have a SawStop, but it doesn't make me happy that they have decided to litigate instead of maybe working directly with Bosch to see if they couldn't come up with something that is in the best interest of everybody including and most importantly customers.

 

On the fact that the Bosch is able to start operating right away, maybe being forced to walk away from the saw after a near accident because you don't have a replacement cartridge would be a good thing.

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Bosch is a buttoned-down outfit... It's SOP for larger entities: prior to releasing the product to Mfg, an IP review by the Development group and a set of position papers from IP Council would have cleared the product... Mfg won't accept the product without the entire package being signed-off by Corp Legal.... SS will jump up and down and make a lot of noise, but less than 10% that it’ll be able to block the competition...

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Beyond the blade retracting it is not even the same animal, let alone a copy, I dont see this stopping Bosch. The sawstop may be small shop /hobby shop appealing but the contractors I deal with would be much more likely to buy into the Bosch set up and blade retract system.

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SS guys seems to think that if you make a blade that wont cut flesh you are infringing on his patent.  I just don't think that is right.  You can't say, I have a patent on a writing device and then sue everyone who makes a pencil of a different design than your own. 

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SS guys seems to think that if you make a blade that wont cut flesh you are infringing on his patent.  I just don't think that is right.  You can't say, I have a patent on a writing device and then sue everyone who makes a pencil of a different design than your own. 

Depends on exactly what the wording is on the patents he has. This is likely not one patent as well but at least two, one for flesh detection and one for blade retraction.

 

Given how often companies sue over IP this is to be expected.  Look at the tech world were everyone is always sue everyone else even when they are also partnering on other projects.

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Every interview I have listened to with the Sawstop owner leaves me thinking he is a complete douche.  I can honestly say I have no desire to own one of his products.  If human safety was truly is utmost concern as he will tout from behind a microphone he would have no problem with this. 

 

The Bosch system looks much better than the sawstop too.  Not ruining $150 worth of blade and an expensive cartridge in the event of a touch is nice. 

 

 

Hes not running a non profit company though. Its HIS design, and by extension is his to do what he feels like with it. Bosch should have licensed with him, win win for everyone. 

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SS guys seems to think that if you make a blade that wont cut flesh you are infringing on his patent.  I just don't think that is right.  You can't say, I have a patent on a writing device and then sue everyone who makes a pencil of a different design than your own. 

 

They both detect flesh via conductivity...that's the technology...that's the innovation.   They may be two totally different ways of stopping/lowering the blade, but they both basically detect you touched the blade in the exact same way.  The Bosch even has very similar override system.

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I guess sawstop will remain the only ones with flesh detection...

http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/sawstop-sues-block-bosch-reaxx-saw

 

Computer industry goes through this, too.

I remember the PICK OS and, iirc, the owner/inventor suing copycats.

PICK isn't around much any more as things changed.

 

And as in photography there is more than one way to do image stabilization, so there must be more than one way to do flesh sensing.

(Shall we mount an iPhone into every saw?)

 

I anticipate that some non-infringing method will soon be developed.

When that happens it's all over.

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Nothing wrong with protecting IP. 

 

If memory serves correctly, he invited other manufacturers to get in on the action before he designed his own line of saws. To me, even more reason to protect his IP. They didn't want a part of it until he proved it, now that there is a proven market share willing to pony up some serious money they all want in. Ya know what, tough cookies. I'd attack each and everyone of them to the fullest extent of the law.

 

Now, if he's a jerk for that or other reasons, it really doesn't matter. If any of us came up with an industry changing technology you'd be in the same boat. And if not, well then you're one of the things I can't say due to Eric's MGMT post above. I think I can say it starts with the letter... (edited by management) ... 

 

Well, guess not! 

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Nothing wrong with protecting IP.

If memory serves correctly, he invited other manufacturers to get in on the action before he designed his own line of saws. To me, even more reason to protect his IP. They didn't want a part of it until he proved it, now that there is a proven market share willing to pony up some serious money they all want in. Ya know what, tough cookies. I'd attack each and everyone of them to the fullest extent of the law.

Now, if he's a jerk for that or other reasons, it really doesn't matter. If any of us came up with an industry changing technology you'd be in the same boat. And if not, well then you're one of the things I can't say due to Eric's MGMT post above. I think I can say it starts with the letter... (edited by management) ...

Well, guess not!

I second this. Well said Mel.
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==>Who. Cares.

Not sure anyone actually cares -- more like watching a movie -- or vaudville...

 

It's really not worth spending too much time noodling on this... too specialized a field... IP is complex and a highly specialized field of play... Patents can be product-related, use-related, field of use related, process related, etc... Patents are also subject to interpretation... It’s why I’m betting Bosch will have a clear field... It's too big a deal... Especially at trebble-damages... Bosch will have done the due-diligence, reviewed the underlying IP, developed an IP defense, etc and all prior to moving to production... Again, SS will make lots of noise and Bosch’s team will respond... The odds that Bosch screwed-up their IP position is virtually nill... I suspect Bosch’s responses were written the day the product went to production... It’ll take time to play-out, but my money’s on Bosch...

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Frankly, if SS owns the technology and Bosh stole it or is using it illegally, they should be sued and forced to stop.  That's the way it's supposed to work, shame on Bosch.

 

As for the technology, that's a big can of worms because that's where the patent is.  I don't think it such an "important" invention that they should be forced to give it up.  going down that path is a slippery slope..

 

Let the legal process work itself out and see where the chips fall.

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More safety is always good and having more than one company able to use safety mechanisms is always nice. I am curious when / IF Bosch will release more than just the jobsite saw with this technology. That is what will excite me.

 

I need chisels with sawstop.

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Flesh sensing is not novel. The only novelty is the link between the sensing and a blade brake. This is what will make it tricky for IP arguments. Blade brakes are all over commercial equipment in various styles. Flesh sensing is all over the planet as well. SS merely linked the two and designed a specialized brake. SS will have the burden to prove a tricky argument. This may have more to do with what decisions will be precedented by this decision.

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