Wanted: DMT Stones


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All I can say is you can't have mine!  I think you could get by with a fine/ extra fine and some leather strops based on my experience.  I only have a coarse/ fine and I go straight from it to my strops with diamond paste.  I'd kinda like finer grits, but really don't think it is necessary.  I can get a darn fine mirror polish going straight to the strops from fine.  And I often don't go above my coarsest strop at that. 

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On January 28, 2016 at 6:44 PM, xxdabroxx said:

All I can say is you can't have mine!  I think you could get by with a fine/ extra fine and some leather strops based on my experience.  I only have a coarse/ fine and I go straight from it to my strops with diamond paste.  I'd kinda like finer grits, but really don't think it is necessary.  I can get a darn fine mirror polish going straight to the strops from fine.  And I often don't go above my coarsest strop at that. 

Dave, do you know of an exceptionally good video on the use of a strop?

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==>I think you could get by with a fine/ extra fine and some leather strops

 

Stropping single-edge tools has been addressed numerous times on WTO, but it bears repeating...

Unless you are comfortable free hand honing, the odds are against successfully improving a polished edge with a strop... This point is so important that I’ll repeat it:

For the vast majority of WTO members, stropping single-bevel bench tools is a mistake. It will not improve an edge polished on a J8000 stone (about 1.2u-1.4u).  Secondly, the edge will [probably] become rounded, thereby degrading the tool's performance...

However – this is woodworking, so there’s always a however: for those who free-hand hone on regular daily basis, stropping can (and rather efficiently), hone an already sharp (but not polished) edge without going to the stones. That’s why you see [some] talking heads recommend stropping single-bevel chisels... That’s why you might want to learn the technique...

Important Note: we’re talking single-bevel edge tools (chisels, plane irons, etc). In other words: edges formed by a flat plane and a single-bevel with, potentially one or two secondary bevels (aka micro-bevel). We are not talking about carving gouges or other double-bevel edge tools (no flat plane)...

Now some will shout, “I use a super-duper polishing compound on my strop that’s made from 0.5u fairy dust, so it’s much better than a J8000 stone”... The answer is, no you don’t. The vast majority of polishing grits available to hobbyist woodworkers are a mix of around 20% chromium oxide (0.5u) and 70% aluminum oxide (2u). On average, this blend equates to #6000. Note: this includes the “0.5u special grade” honing compounds marketed by several woodworking specialty suppliers --- who will remain nameless (but have the initials LV, V, TFWW, etc)... In full disclosure: there is some 0.5u grit in their ’special-grade’ compound, but it’s mostly 2u compound in bulk by Formax and relabeled...

Also in the spirit of full disclosure, most of my single-bevel tools are honed on waterstones to J8000 (1.2u)... For reference, that’s around a 13K Shapton stone... When an edge starts to dull, I’ll hit whatever’s on my bench. This may include a strop, oilstone and/or MDF/diamond paste. It makes no difference... Grit is grit (well, almost – but that’s another thread)... I’ll do this for a couple rounds until the edge needs a real honing, then it’s back to the stones...

 

==>mirror polish

This is another subject covered extensively...

Ever wonder why natural Japanese waterstones (colloquially, J-Nat, JNS, at al) always win the planing competitions, but don't leave a mirror polish?  The answer is simple:

There's a difference between a mirror polish and sharp...

There's also a difference between sharp and the ability to effectively cleave wood fibers...

 

While a mirror edge looks pretty, that doesn't mean it will effectively work wood... Doesn't mean that it won't, but doesn't mean that it will either...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the look of a mirror polish -- and on some of my bench chisels, I have that... But on my finest paring chisels, the finish is anything but mirror (see links below). These edges are polished on natural stones and are both way sharper and cut wood fibers much more effectively than my mirror-polish bench kit...

 

For a more complete discussion on both of the above, see Ron Hock’s Sharpening Blog: https://hocktools.wordpress.com/

For a trip down the rabbet hole: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/

Or for trip into the abyss: http://www.swordpolisher.com/

 

 

 

Edited by hhh
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10 hours ago, hhh said:

==>I think you could get by with a fine/ extra fine and some leather strops

 

Stropping single-edge tools has been addressed numerous times on WTO, but it bears repeating...

Unless you are comfortable free hand honing, the odds are against successfully improving a polished edge with a strop... This point is so important that I’ll repeat it:

For the vast majority of WTO members, stropping single-bevel bench tools is a mistake. It will not improve an edge polished on a J8000 stone (about 1.2u-1.4u).  Secondly, the edge will [probably] become rounded, thereby degrading the tool's performance...

However – this is woodworking, so there’s always a however: for those who free-hand hone on regular daily basis, stropping can (and rather efficiently), hone an already sharp (but not polished) edge without going to the stones. That’s why you see [some] talking heads recommend stropping single-bevel chisels... That’s why you might want to learn the technique...

Important Note: we’re talking single-bevel edge tools (chisels, plane irons, etc). In other words: edges formed by a flat plane and a single-bevel with, potentially one or two secondary bevels (aka micro-bevel). We are not talking about carving gouges or other double-bevel edge tools (no flat plane)...

Now some will shout, “I use a super-duper polishing compound on my strop that’s made from 0.5u fairy dust, so it’s much better than a J8000 stone”... The answer is, no you don’t. The vast majority of polishing grits available to hobbyist woodworkers are a mix of around 20% chromium oxide (0.5u) and 70% aluminum oxide (2u). On average, this blend equates to #6000. Note: this includes the “0.5u special grade” honing compounds marketed by several woodworking specialty suppliers --- who will remain nameless (but have the initials LV, V, TFWW, etc)... In full disclosure: there is some 0.5u grit in their ’special-grade’ compound, but it’s mostly 2u compound in bulk by Formax and relabeled...

Also in the spirit of full disclosure, most of my single-bevel tools are honed on waterstones to J8000 (1.2u)... For reference, that’s around a 13K Shapton stone... When an edge starts to dull, I’ll hit whatever’s on my bench. This may include a strop, oilstone and/or MDF/diamond paste. It makes no difference... Grit is grit (well, almost – but that’s another thread)... I’ll do this for a couple rounds until the edge needs a real honing, then it’s back to the stones...

 

==>mirror polish

This is another subject covered extensively...

Ever wonder why natural Japanese waterstones (colloquially, J-Nat, JNS, at al) always win the planing competitions, but don't leave a mirror polish?  The answer is simple:

There's a difference between a mirror polish and sharp...

There's also a difference between sharp and the ability to effectively cleave wood fibers...

 

While a mirror edge looks pretty, that doesn't mean it will effectively work wood... Doesn't mean that it won't, but doesn't mean that it will either...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the look of a mirror polish -- and on some of my bench chisels, I have that... But on my finest paring chisels, the finish is anything but mirror (see links below). These edges are polished on natural stones and are both way sharper and cut wood fibers much more effectively than my mirror-polish bench kit...

 

For a more complete discussion on both of the above, see Ron Hock’s Sharpening Blog: https://hocktools.wordpress.com/

For a trip down the rabbet hole: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/

Or for trip into the abyss: http://www.swordpolisher.com/

 

 

 

Thanks trip

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On 1/31/2016 at 7:55 AM, hhh said:

==>I think you could get by with a fine/ extra fine and some leather strops

 

Stropping single-edge tools has been addressed numerous times on WTO, but it bears repeating...

Unless you are comfortable free hand honing, the odds are against successfully improving a polished edge with a strop... This point is so important that I’ll repeat it:

For the vast majority of WTO members, stropping single-bevel bench tools is a mistake. It will not improve an edge polished on a J8000 stone (about 1.2u-1.4u).  Secondly, the edge will [probably] become rounded, thereby degrading the tool's performance...

However – this is woodworking, so there’s always a however: for those who free-hand hone on regular daily basis, stropping can (and rather efficiently), hone an already sharp (but not polished) edge without going to the stones. That’s why you see [some] talking heads recommend stropping single-bevel chisels... That’s why you might want to learn the technique...

Important Note: we’re talking single-bevel edge tools (chisels, plane irons, etc). In other words: edges formed by a flat plane and a single-bevel with, potentially one or two secondary bevels (aka micro-bevel). We are not talking about carving gouges or other double-bevel edge tools (no flat plane)...

Now some will shout, “I use a super-duper polishing compound on my strop that’s made from 0.5u fairy dust, so it’s much better than a J8000 stone”... The answer is, no you don’t. The vast majority of polishing grits available to hobbyist woodworkers are a mix of around 20% chromium oxide (0.5u) and 70% aluminum oxide (2u). On average, this blend equates to #6000. Note: this includes the “0.5u special grade” honing compounds marketed by several woodworking specialty suppliers --- who will remain nameless (but have the initials LV, V, TFWW, etc)... In full disclosure: there is some 0.5u grit in their ’special-grade’ compound, but it’s mostly 2u compound in bulk by Formax and relabeled...

Also in the spirit of full disclosure, most of my single-bevel tools are honed on waterstones to J8000 (1.2u)... For reference, that’s around a 13K Shapton stone... When an edge starts to dull, I’ll hit whatever’s on my bench. This may include a strop, oilstone and/or MDF/diamond paste. It makes no difference... Grit is grit (well, almost – but that’s another thread)... I’ll do this for a couple rounds until the edge needs a real honing, then it’s back to the stones...

 

==>mirror polish

This is another subject covered extensively...

Ever wonder why natural Japanese waterstones (colloquially, J-Nat, JNS, at al) always win the planing competitions, but don't leave a mirror polish?  The answer is simple:

There's a difference between a mirror polish and sharp...

There's also a difference between sharp and the ability to effectively cleave wood fibers...

 

While a mirror edge looks pretty, that doesn't mean it will effectively work wood... Doesn't mean that it won't, but doesn't mean that it will either...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the look of a mirror polish -- and on some of my bench chisels, I have that... But on my finest paring chisels, the finish is anything but mirror (see links below). These edges are polished on natural stones and are both way sharper and cut wood fibers much more effectively than my mirror-polish bench kit...

 

For a more complete discussion on both of the above, see Ron Hock’s Sharpening Blog: https://hocktools.wordpress.com/

For a trip down the rabbet hole: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/about-japanese-natural-stones/

Or for trip into the abyss: http://www.swordpolisher.com/

 

 

 

I don't get caught up in all the hype.  I just sharpen stuff until it cuts good.  I also dont use any honing guides.  Freehand diamond stones, straight to strops with lapidary diamond paste.  It works for me. I like my Duo-sharp. 

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I prefer to sharpen my bench chisels by dragging them behind my car on gravel to get the profile, then I hone a microbevel on concrete. 

That's a damn fine edge!

b5f6dda0d07ac3d0eec849072df71227.jpg

Those chisels were bought at a flea market. I got about 18 Stanley chisels with the metal caps on the handles for $1, most of them in decent shape with edges that were just horrid. I sharpened 8 ranging from 1/4 - 1 1/2" on my bench grinder with the tormek straight edge attachment and left the horrible condition ones in the box to rot. I use the ones I sharpened for grunt work, like chopping away at construction lumber or red oak. :D

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