rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 After applying the 3rd coat of finish to a top of a recent build, I realized I still had some pigtails. So i sanded everything down again to get rid of them - very frustrating. I use an ets 150/3 with a CT26. I normally use the vac at about 1/2 power, but turned it all the way down to ensure I got rid of those little oinkers. For you other Festool vac uses, what setting do you use for sanding bare wood? Also what setting do you set the sander to? I normally just leave it at 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have my vac turned down all the way. My sander is usually at 5-6. I use raking light and move the light or the piece im sanding around at different angles to make sure its good. I think hand sanding with the grain on the last grit helps as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 minute ago, shaneymack said: I have my vac turned down all the way. My sander is usually at 5-6. I use raking light and move the light or the piece im sanding around at different angles to make sure its good. I think hand sanding with the grain on the last grit helps as well. Do you find the paper loads up fast through? After a round of sanding the disc is pretty dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 No not at all. What paper are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 f @shaneymack festool rubin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Interesting. Ive never used the rubin. I use the granat from 40 grit to 320 and have not found that it loads up fast, actually the contrary. The granat lasts a long time. Not saying the paper is your problem, just saying ive had no such issues with the granat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, shaneymack said: No not at all. What paper are you using? That pic is after about 5-10 mins of sanding (220) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 The holes on the paper dont seem to be properly aligned with the holes on the sander. is it just the angle of the picture? That could be part of the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Just now, shaneymack said: The holes on the paper dont seem to be properly aligned with the holes on the sander. is it just the angle of the picture? That could be part of the problem. haha - okay you caught me on that one! But it looks very similar even with the holes lined up. You can see the other discs in the background from previous grits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 LOL. So are you getting pigtails again after resanding it all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, shaneymack said: LOL. So are you getting pigtails again after resanding it all? It looks good now, with no oinkers. I want to turn the vac suction up to help keep the disc cleaner, but I think I will leave it on minimum. Ill just have to knock the discs clean after removing them I guess, or maybe use a "sanding eraser" to help with the discs. I did the first coat of finish (again) on the top, so tomorrow will tell if I got them all. I put mineral spirits on to take a look, and I didn't see any, so I went ahead with coat 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 LOL. So are you getting pigtails again after resanding it all? It looks good now, with no oinkers. I want to turn the vac suction up to help keep the disc cleaner, but I think I will leave it on minimum. Ill just have to knock the discs clean after removing them I guess, or maybe use a "sanding eraser" to help with the discs. I did the first coat of finish (again) on the top, so tomorrow will tell if I got them all. I put mineral spirits on to take a look, and I didn't see any, so I went ahead with coat 1. If you have too much suction it will cause swirl marks. It will want to suck the sander down and as you move the sander around it will break the suction over and over again causing a poor sanding job. Good idea to keep you vac way down. Also move your sander really slowly. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Wow, I've never seen Rubin load up. I use my 150/3 with my vac on a touch higher than minimum Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodeuce Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 7 hours ago, shaneymack said: If you have too much suction it will cause swirl marks. It will want to suck the sander down and as you move the sander around it will break the suction over and over again causing a poor sanding job. Good idea to keep you vac way down. Also move your sander really slowly. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk I agree with moving slow. I have the RO 90 and RO 150. I have the suction on max all the time and (hopefully it continues) never get pigtails. My experience is to slow way down and watch angulation. If I start tipping instead of keeping the sander surface dead flat, I can see pigtails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Rubin is bare wood only. The slight corning and tint tell me that there's more then just wood being sanded - residual finish, adhesive, or something. Too high a vac setting Improper disk alignment Failure to change loaded/corned paper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have the 150/5 and have never had a pigtail problem. I turn the CT about 25% which is where it first hits the scale. Technique is important and move the sander about an inch per second. Leaving it in one place to work a spot could cause problems. Also I've never had dust like that on my discs. Check to make sure your bag isn't full. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 If you have too much suction it will cause swirl marks. It will want to suck the sander down and as you move the sander around it will break the suction over and over again causing a poor sanding job. Good idea to keep you vac way down. Also move your sander really slowly. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk I agree with moving slow. I have the RO 90 and RO 150. I have the suction on max all the time and (hopefully it continues) never get pigtails. My experience is to slow way down and watch angulation. If I start tipping instead of keeping the sander surface dead flat, I can see pigtails. I have to say this is quite unusual. Do you have a festool vacuum? Even with the 7 meter hose i have difficulty moving the sander around freely if my ct26 is on max. Maybe your filter is clogged? This is the first ive heard of someone getting good results with their vacuum on max. Are you using the rotex in straight rotary mode? Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Yeah full suction while sanding is not best practice. I also keep mine all the way down. If I'm sanding with 80 grit I'll kick the suction up just a teeny bit but still not much. I had pigtail issues with my 150/3, enough so that I eventually sold it. Don't tell me it was my technique because I don't get them with my 150/5 unless I'm using an old disc. I'm convinced there was something wrong with that sander. I do think the Fes discs wear out way too fast and start giving you pigtails way too soon (well, "worn out" in the sense that if a disc is giving you pigtails it's "worn out"...it might still be removing material but if it's not doing it cleanly, it's useless). That's my experience anyway with two different ETS sanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 ==>Yeah full suction while sanding is not best practice The DC is almost too good on the FT/ETS sanders --- one of the reasons I sold all my ETS units... There's an old thread on this somewhere... I seem to remember being chided for referring to the 'turtle setting' --- hummmm, I wonder who that was.... But a viable solution is to create an ETS hose with some lightning holes to reduce the vac pressure. There's a photo of the config. An adjustable sleeve is used to moderate the pressure. I don't have experience with the new-gen ETS units, maybe they addressed the issue... ==>I had pigtail issues with my 150/3 Did you ever send it to FT to diagnose? BTW: Festool used to have a document on their website to diagnose pigtail issues... I don't see it anymore... I'll post it in the reference library... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 26 minutes ago, hhh said: ==>I had pigtail issues with my 150/3 Did you ever send it to FT to diagnose? No I sent it to some guy on ebay for 75% retail value. The whole ordeal with that sander was weird, and here's why: With a brand new disc, I wouldn't get pigtails. Literally three minutes later with the same disc, I would. With the 150/5, I wouldn't get pigtails for about ten minutes. I still think this is a ridiculously tiny amount of lifespan for such an expensive disc, but it's all I can get out of mine. I don't know what else I can do...my suction is all the way down, my pressure is light (non-existent), my movement is slow and steady. I don't know if I inspect my boards closer than most people or what, but unless I sand start-to-finish with nearly brand new discs, I have pigtail issues. It's an expensive way to get around the problem, but the only one I've found thus far. Short of switching everything over to Mirka, I'm at a loss...I've tried everything. Note: softer woods (mahogany or softer) don't seem to give me nearly as much trouble. Species harder than mahogany do. The harder the wood, the worse the pigtails. Sanding bubinga is a nightmare. I change discs every couple minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 @Eric. I bought a sander i don't remember which i tihnk it was a ets 125 but i had the same problem pigtails everywhere. I worked and worked and tried to get the sander to not pigtail. I ended up returning the sander extremely embarrassed but it didn't work for me. I got stuck with a ton of sand paper that i used 1 piece out of each grit though. I went back to my dewalt 1/4 sheet and yes it's a cheap terrible sander but it works for me with no tails. Maybe i just have technique down for this sander but i even use 3M paper, and no one writes about how great that sand paper is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I came from a Ridgid 5" and going to the 150/5 my discs seem to last forever. The one time I've seen pigtails was on hard maple when I forgot to turn the CT down from high. From the start I've set mine to about 25% and that's where I always sand. I got a bunch of free Festool discs, free Klingspor discs, and free Rhynogrip discs and none of them leave pigtails. Personally I can't tell a difference between the brands but then again sanding is mind-numbing. Eric try turning your CT to 25%. When I'm done sanding with a grit I can't see any dust on the board but passing a finger over it will show a little fine dust. I don't brush off the surface between grits and rest my left hand on the sander but don't push down. I use the soft (white) pad unless I'm doing edges then I switch to the hard (blue) pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 This is the first time that I've had the issue. I just came in from the shop - freshly planed piece of cherry. Went, new discs, 120, 150, 180, 220 and still have tails. Like @Eric., 1" per second feed rate, no downward pressure, and vac on minimum. I am very frustrated right now. I'm gonna look up my festool rep, but without a sander my shop is down for a while, as I am in the finishing stage of a project. The discs are loading a lot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 ==>ebay for 75% retail value. Well, it may not be worth diagnosing a sander you no-longer have... But for the next guy reading this, I would have tried two additional things: One would be adding lightening holes to reduce pressure below turtle -- I've seen this over on FOG on several occasions... Like I said, the DC maybe too good on the ETS... And try another abrasive --- say Abranet... BTW: You should try Abranet anyway -- get their sample pack off amazon and see how you like it... BTW: you need to up-disk on Abranet for equivalent surface -- so if you normally sand to 180 on Rubin, sand to 220 on Abranet... You know, you can put Abranet in the dishwasher and get some extra life -- until your wife catches you -- then your life is forfeit... ==>With a brand new disc, I wouldn't get pigtails. Literally three minutes later with the same disc, I would. Which abrasive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, hhh said: ==>ebay for 75% retail value. Well, it may not be worth diagnosing a sander you no-longer have... But for the next guy reading this, I would have tried two additional things: One would be adding lightening holes to reduce pressure below turtle -- I've seen this over on FOG on several occasions... Like I said, the DC maybe too good on the ETS... And try another abrasive --- say Abranet... BTW: You should try Abranet anyway -- get their sample pack off amazon and see how you like it... BTW: you need to up-disk on Abranet for equivalent surface -- so if you normally sand to 180 on Rubin, sand to 220 on Abranet... You know, you can put Abranet in the dishwasher and get some extra life -- until your wife catches you -- then your life is forfeit... ==>With a brand new disc, I wouldn't get pigtails. Literally three minutes later with the same disc, I would. Which abrasive? I have Rubin 2, as that is what was recommended for my applcation by festool (bare wood surface prep). I have a box of 50 of each grit 120, 150, 180, 220. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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