shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 16 minutes ago, Pug said: This is the first time that I've had the issue. I just came in from the shop - freshly planed piece of cherry. Went, new discs, 120, 150, 180, 220 and still have tails. Like @Eric., 1" per second feed rate, no downward pressure, and vac on minimum. I am very frustrated right now. I'm gonna look up my festool rep, but without a sander my shop is down for a while, as I am in the finishing stage of a project. The discs are loading a lot too. Do you vacuum the entire workpiece between grits? This is another thing i do and I never have swirl marks. Worth a try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Yeah Rubin and Rubin 2 for me as well. I've never tried Abranet. However I have tried every suction level and change in technique (aside from Trip's lightening holes) and the only variable I can isolate is the newness of the discs. I feel like I've heard enough similar complaints from enough guys (who I know aren't complete numskulls who use an ROS like Scott Phillips) in order to comfortably say...these ETS sanders may have some kind of issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 My sander may be out of warranty as well, I dunno how long Ive had it. I'll have to call Lee Valley and check. 5 minutes ago, shaneymack said: Do you vacuum the entire workpiece between grits? This is another thing i do and I never have swirl marks. Worth a try? Yup, I do clean the surface. I guess I could be better at it, but I don't feel like I should need to baby this sander so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 My sander may be out of warranty as well, I dunno how long Ive had it. I'll have to call Lee Valley and check. Do you vacuum the entire workpiece between grits? This is another thing i do and I never have swirl marks. Worth a try? Yup, I do clean the surface. I guess I could be better at it, but I don't feel like I should need to baby this sander so much. Ya true. Seems like you are doing everything right. Sounds like an issue. Try searching this issue on the FOG or maybe even post the issue. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 All this discussion makes me grin every time I fire up my $25 HF sander and get a swirl-free finish using box store disks. Which is every time. ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jussi Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 This could just be marketing hype but according to Festool Rubin is designated for bare stock. http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/Abrasives_brochure.pdf I switched to alot of my sandpaper to Abranet last year and really like it. Well actually I use Autonet because it's cheaper and the same product (just marketed towards auto industry). I could use it for a really long time and it never clogged. The only down side is it will wear much faster when working on edges and doesn't work great on curves. Which is why I still have 25% of granat paper. If you use it on your Festool sander make sure to get an interface pad. It's much thinner than regular sandpaper and the hooks on your pad will eventually melt after extended use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 ==>Rubin 2, as that is what was recommended for my applcation by festool (bare wood surface prep) Rubin is the best disk for bare wood... But terrible for anything other than bare wood... Adhesive, finish, etc will clog it immediately. Clogging is one of the fastest ways to get swirl marks... As a side note: I would not use Rubin with a 3mm stroke sander... I simply didn't use a fine-stroke sander under 240g. What are you sanding? Your photo shows a tint on the paper and what looks like corning... Again, that indicates something other than just bare wood in the mix... Corning will immediately create swirl marks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 9 minutes ago, hhh said: Corning will immediately create swirl marks... What is corning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post shaneymack Posted February 15, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 Corning will immediately create swirl marks... What is corning? Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 If anyone wants to try the Klingspor discs you can call them and see if they'll send samples. When I did it they sent 10 packs of 80-220 and I just had to pay for shipping. Their PS33 discs have always ranked at the top in tests. http://www.woodworkingshop.com/category.aspx?id=21&f1=6%22+X+17+HOLE&f3=STEARATE+A%2fO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 ==>What is corning? When sanding something other then bare wood (or bare wood with contaminates) the heat generated may melt finish/adhesive/etc into small clumps (seen most easily with shellac). These clumps create a scratch pattern (the pigtail) independent of the rest of the abrasive surface. In short, the minute you see something other than fine dust on the disk, it's done... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 hour ago, hhh said: ==>Rubin 2, as that is what was recommended for my applcation by festool (bare wood surface prep) Rubin is the best disk for bare wood... But terrible for anything other than bare wood... Adhesive, finish, etc will clog it immediately. Clogging is one of the fastest ways to get swirl marks... As a side note: I would not use Rubin with a 3mm stroke sander... I simply didn't use a fine-stroke sander under 240g. What are you sanding? Your photo shows a tint on the paper and what looks like corning... Again, that indicates something other than just bare wood in the mix... Corning will immediately create swirl marks... I am sanding bare cherry. I have been sanding, getting pigtails, then running the face over the jointer, adjusting speed/vac/etc and trying again. 1 hour ago, hhh said: ==>What is corning? When sanding something other then bare wood (or bare wood with contaminates) the heat generated may melt finish/adhesive/etc into small clumps (seen most easily with shellac). These clumps create a scratch pattern (the pigtail) independent of the rest of the abrasive surface. In short, the minute you see something other than fine dust on the disk, it's done... @hhh How much fine dust is acceptable for a system of this quality? The disc above is pretty typical for me. I have been cleaning off the dust with a crepe block between uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 ==>The disc above is pretty typical for me. I have been cleaning off the dust with a crepe block between uses. That disk looks very loaded... I probably have a disk or two of Rubin somewhere and, if I do, then I'll do a quick comparison. I don't clean small disks -- when they get loaded, I toss them... I only use crepe blocks/pads/sheets on stationary sanders... That could be part of your problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 16 minutes ago, hhh said: ==>The disc above is pretty typical for me. I have been cleaning off the dust with a crepe block between uses. That disk looks very loaded... I probably have a disk or two of Rubin somewhere and, if I do, then I'll do a quick comparison. I don't clean small disks -- when they get loaded, I toss them... I only use crepe blocks/pads/sheets on stationary sanders... That could be part of your problem... I considered this as well, so I did a test without using them. They don't seem to be affecting anything. If I tossed a disc that was loaded, I would go through a tonne of discs for even a small project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 You mean to tell me that a $400 sander and a $20 piece of sandpaper doesnt do everything perfectly? . I hope the $500 vacuum isnt the culprit :-O 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 ==>I would go through a tonne of discs for even a small project! Well, don't know what to say... Something's off... I do a lot of work in Cherry, used an ETS for years and at least 1K Rubin disks... Mine never seemed to load like that, and I could use them for quite some time... I never cleaned them and could certainly get 10 minutes/disk. On a small project, it would be one disk in each grit. I'd toss them at the end of the project... PS: I never vacuum between grits (unless it sanding a clear coat)... I never get swirls... Sometimes I use shop air and go ever everything, but that' more about keeping my space clean then worrying about cross-contamination... Someone must have read that on the internet and now it seems to have become urban legend. BTW: one other cause of swirls is using dull paper... The paper is abrasive, right. It dulls with use. When it dulls, you don't cleave fibers cleanly... You generate heat... You load the paper and generate swirls... I haven't used the new-gen ETS, so maybe there's an issue... Get a assortment box of Abranet and give it a whirl... Then we'll be just down to the ETS itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 I have pigtails in my very hard crotchwood walnut table. I need to remove them so I can finish this project. I have sanded it several times at 120grit with my ETS 125 sander and there are still pigtails. I recently increased the sander speed to 5 of 6. My CT Mini has 5 settings. Should I put it on the lowest setting or the second from lowest setting? Is it better to keep sanding at 120 grit (forever) or go back to 100 to try to remove the pigtails? I am keeping the sander level, not pushing on it and moving slowly (though not quite as slow as 1" per second). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 Hey Sharon, try Looking up card scraper use and see if that is an option you might try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 ETS 125 is a bit low on power for 100-120 grit. If it were me I'd hit the piece with a card scraper and then start at 180 grit. Ct mini on lowest setting is better too much pressure is going to bog down the sander and cause pigtails. I have an ETS 125 and i never use it below 180 grit mostly because it doesn't have enough power to prevent the pigtails. I run 120-180 grit on my ets ec 150 and it has the power to sand pigtail free. It is possible to work up slowly in grits going from 120-150-180-220 the smaller steps help remove the pigtails from the previous grits. This is tedious and uses a lot of paper hence i just grab a card scraper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 Thanks, but I have broken the rules and created a spiral pattern so I cannot effectively put it through a planer, drum sander, hand sanding with a block or use card scrapers easily because I end up scratching the boards that are at 90 degrees to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 A well prepped card scraper should be able to handle any direction. I use mine cross grain and against the grain. The point is to be able to smooth to a point where you can skip to high grit and eliminate the pigtails that may occur at lower grits. Light pressure with the card scraper will be keep. Using a file on the card scraper isn't enough the edge needs to be closer to a polish. I hone the edges of mine on my water stones up to 8,000 grit. Seeing the picture .... I'd attack that gently with a card scraper. As an aside is that veneer or solid wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 I agree with Chestnut on the card scraper. But in case you don't have a sharp card scraper. Did your pigtails occur with 100 grit or with 120 grit? If they are still there after multiple passes with 120 grit, then 120 grit will keep making more pigtails as it removes the old ones. Try moving up to 150 grit, I have found that it takes more sanding on burl and crotch wood to remove previous sanding scratches than on flat cut or QS wood. Sanding will always scratch burl and crotch wood. You remove the scratches with the next finer grit unitl you get fine enough that you can no longer see the scratches. You may need to take the sanding beyond 220 grit to get the results you want. If I am looking for a realy smooth gloss finish I prefer to hand sand. I did an experiment on once on a piece of burl. Handsanded with 120 grit north-south, then 150 grit E-W, then 180 grit NW-SE, thenn 220 grit SW-NE. Then put a couple of coats of gloss finish down to accentuate and any scratches. All of the scratches were N-S (120 grit. ) I had not sanded enough with the 150. I tried again and it took about 2x as much sanding with 150 as I did the first time to remove the 120 scratches. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coop Posted June 28, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 So the moral of this story is, don’t sand N-S? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon Posted June 28, 2022 Report Share Posted June 28, 2022 Thank you all for your input! It is solid wood. Will be a fold down table. ART when it is up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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