Cliff

In before price increase - barely!

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2 minutes ago, Cliff said:

I wasn't insulting you man. Or saying you are wrong. Just that people do it. I don't feel like it's the choice for me in the long run. And also.. I'm not like heavily leaning towards this either. It was a thought that I had.

I am the type that seems to get annoyed if the machine isn't up to my standards, and that is what is happening with the table saw at the moment. It bogs down on 8/4, The fence is not perfectly straight, the steel wings have bent down on the right side. The fence doesn't glide as smooth as it should on the rails, and when it locks down it tends to push to the right a bit. So I definitely want a new one. If selling mine will get me say.. $400 that is $400 closer to the Sawstop solution. Possibly I could go that long without it. Maybe. Idle speculation, as I said.

It's a smart money decision to get what you can from your saw to apply towards the upgrade but, would you pay that for a saw with those flaws?  

Not picking at you, just being honest.  I think getting what you can and applying to the new saw makes good sense.

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Just now, TIODS said:

It's a smart money decision to get what you can from your saw to apply towards the upgrade but, would you pay that for a saw with those flaws?  

Not picking at you, just being honest.  I think getting what you can and applying to the new saw makes good sense.

You are correct, I wouldn't. But I know others probably will. And I don't even know how much of it is fixable - maybe everything but the fence straightness (and it's not THAT bad, just annoys me.) I've kinda reached my machine-tweaking limits with Eric's old jointer and just letting the things that are wrong with the TS slide.

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Just now, Cliff said:

You are correct, I wouldn't. But I know others probably will. And I don't even know how much of it is fixable - maybe everything but the fence straightness (and it's not THAT bad, just annoys me.) I've kinda reached my machine-tweaking limits with Eric's old jointer and just letting the things that are wrong with the TS slide.

Upgrades are just that, upgrades.  Track saws are awesome to have and come in super handy!  However, the 2 are not interchangeable even for short periods.

Hope it all works out for you to your liking and plan!  As I always say, it's your money and your shop so, those decisions are ultimately yours to make.

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3 minutes ago, TIODS said:

Upgrades are just that, upgrades.  Track saws are awesome to have and come in super handy!  However, the 2 are not interchangeable even for short periods.

Hope it all works out for you to your liking and plan!  As I always say, it's your money and your shop so, those decisions are ultimately yours to make.

Keep in mind I'd still have a band saw. Anyway, who knows, right now my new table saw purchase is a 2018 thing. I can't justify a new one when I have one and don't have a drum sander.

Like I said, it wasn't well thought out plan. In fact, I only started thinking it over after being questioned on it. One of those days I guess.

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Just now, Cliff said:

Keep in mind I'd still have a band saw. Anyway, who knows, right now my new table saw purchase is a 2018 thing. I can't justify a new one when I have one and don't have a drum sander.

Like I said, it wasn't well thought out plan. In fact, I only started thinking it over after being questioned on it. One of those days I guess.

Upgrades are usually needed as your skills progress.  Stuff happens!

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I've been there with a table saw that wasn't really up to scratch (DW745). After i bought my PM1000 i couldn't imagine going back to my old saw. I don't know what you do for work but i can and do get by without a drum sander but i couldn't manage without a table saw even if i did purchase a track saw. Maybe it's ignorance but how would you cut a 12" x 2" piece of wood in half? This is something i do a lot.

I'm not trying to convince you one way or another i just want to try and bring up situations where I'd be stuck with out a table saw and have you be able to apply those situations to what you'd do.

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I really think it depends onwhat you build. I don't use sheet goods much at all and don't build cabinets/built ins.  For the furniture projects I build my table saw gets less use than my bandsaw and I am also considering selling it and getting a tracksaw/MFT instead.  Even for ripping to width I usually joint an edge, rip to width on bandsaw, then run through planer on edge. Its fast enough for me, very accurate, and I get two glue ready edges.  For wide boards (that I wouldn't put on edge in a thickness planer) I usually rip on the bandsaw joint on the jointer.  For wider boards (ie for a panel or table top) it might not matter of the edges are perfectly parallel.  I am a hobbyist, not a production guy and my enjoyment comes before efficiency.  

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11 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I've been there with a table saw that wasn't really up to scratch (DW745). After i bought my PM1000 i couldn't imagine going back to my old saw. I don't know what you do for work but i can and do get by without a drum sander but i couldn't manage without a table saw even if i did purchase a track saw. Maybe it's ignorance but how would you cut a 12" x 2" piece of wood in half? This is something i do a lot.

I'm not trying to convince you one way or another i just want to try and bring up situations where I'd be stuck with out a table saw and have you be able to apply those situations to what you'd do.

This is just for discussion at this point.. but why can't you cut that wood in half with a track saw? Or a miter box? Or a miter saw? Or a jig saw then true it up with a .. however people true up cuts like that?

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4 minutes ago, Cliff said:

This is just for discussion at this point.. but why can't you cut that wood in half with a track saw? Or a miter box? Or a miter saw? Or a jig saw then true it up with a .. however people true up cuts like that?

Longer rips on small stock just isn't practical on a track saw.

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Just now, Cliff said:

This is just for discussion at this point.. but why can't you cut that wood in half with a track saw? Or a miter box? Or a miter saw? Or a jig saw then true it up with a .. however people true up cuts like that?

I figured something that small wouldn't work with the track it'd be unstable. I'd never cut that with my miter saw that just sounds like trouble. I get your point there are other ways. I guess i could safely say that you are trying to think about everything.

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I don't like my table saw much, but I agree, for those long rips, it's just the best tool. Of course a band saw could also be used, or even a circular saw with an edge guide.

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1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

I figured something that small wouldn't work with the track it'd be unstable. I'd never cut that with my miter saw that just sounds like trouble. I get your point there are other ways. I guess i could safely say that you are trying to think about everything.

I assumed you meant a crosscut, my bad.

No, I don't really know for sure how you'd rip that. I guess a bandsaw.

But I do look at it this way.. table saws aren't essential. Otherwise there would be no hand tool only woodworkers. They'd all give up and go home. I'm not gonna be that guy though so yeah I don't see this happening either.

 

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16 minutes ago, Cliff said:

No, I don't really know for sure how you'd rip that. I guess a bandsaw.

I rip cut a lot with my bandsaw. But I need extra hands for long rips, because I don't have rollers or an outfeed table of the required height. I don't think anyone would build and outfeed table for a bandsaw anyways.

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Well I ordered the track saw today. I ended up going with Makita. I think the #1 reason I wanted the Festool is because the systainer matched the sander and jigsaw. Price is $650 vs $406. And the track is something like half price. Just couldn't justify the extra cost, because it would have kept me from buying other crap that I want :) 

So I guess I am hijacking my own thread with a Makita purchase. 

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48 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Well I ordered the track saw today. I ended up going with Makita. I think the #1 reason I wanted the Festool is because the systainer matched the sander and jigsaw. Price is $650 vs $406. And the track is something like half price. Just couldn't justify the extra cost, because it would have kept me from buying other crap that I want :) 

So I guess I am hijacking my own thread with a Makita purchase. 

I recently used one that belonged to a friend who builds sets. It was pretty awesome. Zero tear out on ply, and I loved the little adjustable things to lock it onto the track. 

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I would have given more thought to makita and dewalt, but I had my heart set on cut depth. As far as I know, the festool TS75 is the only horse in that race. In any case, they are very convenient to have around, but would never replaced a table saw. Never Ever.

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Plus a tracksaw of any make excels at cutting strange angles. If you can draw a line you can cut it with the tracksaw.

As soon as the parts get small or need to be cut in multiples the tablesaw is the logical choice.

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2 hours ago, Pwk5017 said:

I would have given more thought to makita and dewalt, but I had my heart set on cut depth. As far as I know, the festool TS75 is the only horse in that race.

Before I went Makita I was considering ts55 vs ts75. I just couldn't think of a reason I'd really need to make a cut that deep so I had dropped the ts75 from consideration already. 

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Congrats on your purchase. You'll enjoy it! 

Don't forget to grab yourself a set of these guys. 

Dewalt Track Clamps

I had to run a file on mine really quick to loosen up the fit. But they're a good deal, work well, and are cheap for the pair!

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Yep and they work with the festool too. Two Dewalt clamps or one festool clamp? You decide. 

 

I make counters and islands so cut depth is paramount for me. I've used the Mac cut depth on the ts75 a couple times already. The ts55 still has a respectable cut depth around 1.5-1.75"

Crap! Forgot to add my contribution to the thread. I can't believe I paid $650 for this thing, but it is very nice. So quiet, finally the hoses connect to my festool tools. I'm sure it is much more efficient at filtering the air before exhausting than my cheap shop vac. 

image.jpeg

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56 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

Yep and they work with the festool too. Two Dewalt clamps or one festool clamp? You decide. 

 

I make counters and islands so cut depth is paramount for me. I've used the Mac cut depth on the ts75 a couple times already. The ts55 still has a respectable cut depth around 1.5-1.75"

Crap! Forgot to add my contribution to the thread. I can't believe I paid $650 for this thing, but it is very nice. So quiet, finally the hoses connect to my festool tools. I'm sure it is much more efficient at filtering the air before exhausting than my cheap shop vac. 

image.jpeg

 

I find myself more and more interested in that. The thing is.. I got a shop vac which is great. It has a dust deputy. That takes up a lot of room. Plus I have my dust collector and it's super dust deputy and fiber drum - which takes up even more room. I sorta want to ditch the shop vac completely. Take it down in my basement. How come nobody uses their dust collector with their sander/track saw etc? 

I could see getting one and putting it next to the air compressor underneath the assembly table that I haven't built yet. How often do you need to empty it and change filters and such without a 2nd stage?

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I have just about every Festool I will ever need.  Yeah right!  The one that I am really interested in is the sys vac, I believe it would be extremely useful for when you only need to make a quick cut.  

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Dust collectors move vast volumes of air in bigger ducts , shop vacs move smaller amounts of air faster in smaller hoses. I am sure someone has a better explanation  but the small hose vac and large hose/ duct  collector world are quite different.

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