Lie Neilsen Low Angle Jack Plane

[Cliff]

I am considering getting a low angle jack from LN. Before I go any further, let me say what I think it is for and you guys can tell me if I'm eyeing the wrong plane.

-Flatten panels

-Possibly for use on end grain situations (cutting board?)

-Possibly use as a smoothing plane and a scraper

Biggest reason - $245 + different angle blades get me a lot of functionality.

It says it comes with a 12 degree blade and that is my end-grain blade. They have a 90 degree bevel, that would be the scraper. They have a toothed blade - on the site it says for aggressive removal of material. Then the only other blades it lists are 50 degree. According to their description I want one at 38 for less tear out on wavy grain, and one for 33 for smoothing. So do I need to buy another 12 or a 50 and then grind the new angles? Because I don't have a grinder currently. And when it says "25° for end grain work, 33° for smoothing, 38° for tackling wavy grain" does that include the secondary bevel I'd put on it? (same with 90)

I assume smoothing is what I'd use for flattening my panels?

[Eric.]

The BED is 12*, not the blade bevel.

I'd just buy the plane and one extra blade (50*), that way you can work end grain or long grain.  You'll keep the higher angle in most of the time unless you build a shooting board and want to shoot miters.

I'd skip the toothed and scraping blades for now unless you find yourself needing one...you probably won't.

The LAJ is a great plane if you're only gonna have one plane.  As soon as you add a few more to your collection it becomes obsolete.  Mine is for end grain only...I bought it for shooting.

[Cliff]

Sorry I typed 12 degree, but meant 25.

I wish they'd offer a 38 degree blade for a bit more. I'd pay that. Cheaper than buying a grinder

I have an old smoother but I don't get good results with it. It's a 1929 Stanley. I think I'm a tard and can't set it up properly. But all of my new planes (block, shoulder, router) I find very easy to use.

 

[Janello]

Veritas offers a 38 degree for the LA Jack. and it's what I use the most. It can do end grain well and it's easier for me to take a finer shaving than the 25 degree on face or edge grain. 

There are some planes made by Lie Nielsen I like better than Veritas, but the LA Jack isn't one of them.

[Eric.]

29 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Sorry I typed 12 degree, but meant 25.

I wish they'd offer a 38 degree blade for a bit more. I'd pay that. Cheaper than buying a grinder

 

Just buy the 50*.  That gives you 62* with the bed angle, perfect for long grain.  A little on the high side, but less tear-out.  I always prefer a little too high over a little too low.

[Tpt life]

I like the toothed blade but don't distrust Eric so I am not sure where our work flows may differ. I think it may be the difference in the amount of hand milling. 

[Cliff]

1 minute ago, Eric. said:

Just buy the 50*.  That gives you 62* with the bed angle, perfect for long grain.  A little on the high side, but less tear-out.  I always prefer a little too high over a little too low.

Perfect man, that's exactly what I needed to know. Nothing too complicated.

[Immortan D]

When I ordered my LAJP I was about to order the entire set, with all the blades, but ended up ordering just the plane. I'm not sorry, It's a great plane, but I always prefer my standard angle planes, LN or not, I just like them more.

[Eric.]

14 minutes ago, C Shaffer said:

I like the toothed blade but don't distrust Eric so I am not sure where our work flows may differ. I think it may be the difference in the amount of hand milling. 

You're surely right, Carus...difference in work flow.

The only time I EVER mill a board with a hand plane is when I have one too wide for my jointer, and I'll flatten one side.  But then it's off to the planer after that so if there's any tearout left from the plane it goes away anyway.

Also, I'm not sure what the advantage is of the toothed blade except when using highly figured wood?

[Cliff]

7 minutes ago, Eric. said:

You're surely right, Carus...difference in work flow.

The only time I EVER mill a board with a hand plane is when I have one too wide for my jointer, and I'll flatten one side.  But then it's off to the planer after that so if there's any tearout left from the plane it goes away anyway.

Also, I'm not sure what the advantage is of the toothed blade except when using highly figured wood?

 

What if you have a glue up on a panel that is off, and you need to flatten one side before you put through drum sander? Or is this just something you don't run into now? That's primarily my concern here.

[Tpt life]

6 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Also, I'm not sure what the advantage is of the toothed blade except when using highly figured wood?

Point taken. I have a lot of this at 3,130 janka. I think maybe it is just the ease of push? The toothed config is only really cutting on half the iron. It means more passes, but easier pushes. I got better at sharpening and also better at using the cap iro for good effect and would not say it is necessary to use the toothed. I think it is the ease of push. 

[Llama]

I don't get the negatives about low angle planes as I use them almost exclusively. The idea of the LAJ being obsolete with other purchases isn't something that makes sense to me. There are many ways to do a specific task... It really comes down to preference. I prefer low angle planes, so I find myself in this battle from time to time. 

I have one blade for mine, never wanted another one. I use block planes for end grain usually. Set with a sharp blade and a tight mouth, the LAJ is great with almost any wood. If you find yourself working with highly figured woods by hand, get a toothed blade or hone a higher bevel on the blade that came with the plane. Takes a handful of swipes to change the bevel angle, no grinder required. 

[gee-dub]

I'll add some fodder to the discussion.  Leaving the LV/LN discussion behind I too use bevel up planes about 70/30.  My LAJ takes the same iron as my jointer and my BU Smoother.  With a little planning I ended up with irons of 25, 38 and 50 degrees in A2 and PM-V11 steels.  All irons fit all bodies. With these combinations I have a suite of planes in each format.

I do have a Millers Falls No.5 size BD plane that is a favorite and a couple of MF No.4 size planes one cambered as a smoother and the other sharpened straight.

All we can really do is share our experiences when it comes to hand tools once you reach a certain level of quality where the tool is not fighting you.  Many, many things do not translate between humans; hand size, grip strength, arm length, height foot to waist, height waist to shoulder, etc.

Add just plain old personal preference to the mix and I cannot say what is the best smoother for you and you cannot say what is the best block plane for me.  However, sheer volume of shared experiences will benefit newbie and old-timers alike.  Vive la difference

[Eric.]

What I mean by "obsolete"...

Most people (at least, many people) buy low angle planes (especially the LAJ) to be a versatile tool that can do many jobs.  But if you start buying additional planes that fill specific niches, suddenly that LAJ is no longer doing all those jobs and you find yourself not using it.  I have a #4, #5, and #7...and since I know I never have to change setups on those planes (and I prefer the mass and feel of bevel down planes), I hardly ever reach for the LAJ for common long grain tasks.  So that makes it obsolete in MY shop, since I have other planes that are more specific and generally do better jobs at their jobs.

The LAJ is still good for end grain though, and I use it (and my LAS) whenever end grain makes an appearance.  Smoothing end grain bevels or shooting are the major uses.  And it's a grain plane if you're gonna just have one or two...ultimately I think a cabinet with a half dozen or so various models is better than just the one.

[Eric.]

Heeeeee-aaaaawwwwww!

Donkey work. LOL

[Llama]

47 minutes ago, Eric. said:

...and I prefer the mass and feel of bevel down planes

This solves 99% of our disagreements on low angle planes. 

[Cliff]

I don't even remotely understand bevel down vs bevel up. However, I'm definitely looking for a plane that can fill a few roles because I don't plan to buy another plane for at least a year I figure (after this.) 

[Cliff]

10 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Looking at original list,  I think you should look into a smooth plane:

1) Flatten Panels.  You have a planer and jointer.  You shouldn't need to flatten panels after they are glued.   If you need to do much work on your panels, you have a problem in your workflow and a hand plane will just be an expensive reminder of that problem.  

2) End grain.  A smoother works great on end grain, especially a low angle smoother. 

3) Smoothing and scraping.  Well, this should be self explanatory. 

If you are jonesing to buy a plane simply to buy one, then a LAJ is a good choice.  But like Eric said, eventually you will want more task-specific planes and a smoother will excel at 2 of the 3 tasks you listed. 

Unfortunately I can't plan around not needing to flatten a panel when I have one right this second that needs it. (I think I must have flipped the board so that it aligned with the biscuits upside down) I'm toying with the idea of cutting the joint with the track saw and regluing - if the other joints are acceptable, I need to double check those.

I actually have a smoother. I just can't seem to get it to stop leaving tracks. I've cambered the crap out of the blade and it still does it so I am not sure whats up with that. 

Part of it is to just have another LN hand plane, no doubt. I didn't mention it above either, but I would like to flatten board faces that are too wide for the jointer. Or at least practice at it. I just am not sure how often that will come up. I do have two 14" wide walnut boards that will need some flattening at some point. 

Edit - Also, I think Smoother is like $100 more? Ideally I want all the planes, obviously!

[Tpt life]

The jack is a better wide panel chuter IMO if you want a chute plane option as well. 

[Cliff]

7 minutes ago, C Shaffer said:

The jack is a better wide panel chuter IMO if you want a chute plane option as well. 

Is "chute" the same as "shooting?" Is that for squaring up ends? Why would someone use that if they have a crosscut sled for table saw? Just curious. 

[Tpt life]

I think shooting is more about fine tuning. It can be tricky to shave two thou with control on a sled. I don't know exactly though. I think Eric and Mel have pretty well nailed a lot as preferential opinion. IF you ever shoot, the jack is easier to hold IMO and that is without a hotdog. 

[Cliff]

I never thought of fine tuning. That would be really handy.

[Llama]

Just buy them all. You'll do it eventually anyway. 

[Llama]

3 minutes ago, Mike. said:

From time to time I have had to touch up the end grain for domino joinery and my smooth plane works fine for that.  

Splitting hairs, but a shooting board/plane is used to shoot to a knife line. A smoother is used to, well, smooth the material. Unless you are working to a knife line, shooting isn't the right method. Generally speaking it's for tight fitting drawer fronts, and things like that. (although I usually f those up anyway...) 

[Tpt life]

38 minutes ago, Llama said:

Splitting hairs, but a shooting board/plane is used to shoot to a knife line. A smoother is used to, well, smooth the material. Unless you are working to a knife line, shooting isn't the right method. Generally speaking it's for tight fitting drawer fronts, and things like that. (although I usually f those up anyway...) 

I get what you are saying about smoothers, but the chute thing is not strictly about knife lines. Chutes feature fences at angles and the donkey's ear is also a chute. They are often used for narrow boards but still are used for some wide. It just happens that the bulk of furniture parts are narrow or feature hidden non-critical new. I suppose that is still splitting a fine hair and possibly adds nothing to the discussion. Maybe it just points out my work flow as non-typical.