How to really deal with warping of boards when ripping smaller board off a large wide...


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I have a strange project in mind. I'd like to build a Craftsman Style Prarie Chair and Morris Chair w/ Ottoman... but for outside, and out of standard 2 x 4 wood from Home Depot. The biggest problem that I am anticipating is that the boards will warp, twist, bow, and cup as soon as I run them through the table saw to start milling them down to dimension. 

I have a huge passion for woodworking, but I do not have a lot of experience. Up until now, I have mostly built things out of plywood with only the occasional hardwood addition. I want to do this so that I can learn more about "how wood behaves." I figure, if I can build a passable Morris chair from 2 x 4 wood, then quarter sawn white oak would be a dream to work with. So, now I need a crash course in 2x4s. 

Do any of you guys have any tips on things to look for, or steer clear of? I imagine that the most important step will be choosing the boards. I have zero problem sitting my ass at Home Depot, and pulling every single 2x4 down, setting in on the floor and checking for warp/bow/cup/twist. But I do not know things like... I've heard it is better to buy wider boards like 2x8, 2x12, and rip them down to what you need because the lumber companies use "better" wood for the wide boards. However, I've also heard the exact opposite; that this is a common amateur mistake, and the inner board tension is released once you start ripping off boards, and you end up with bent crooked boards. I imagine that the truth lies somewhere in between, but can anyone give me their manifesto on buying 2x4s?

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I like the wider boards (most are flat sawn)  because you can rip the sides of the boards off which typically contain the straighter grain and are more stable. The center of the board typically contain the center of the tree which tends to get a little wonkey.

 

-Ace-

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+1 to what Ace said.  Additionally, I don't know about other people, but the Lowes' in my area have kiln dried dimensional lumber and they're a heck of a lot more stable than what I can find at the Home Depots.  I still have to pick through the whole stack looking for the best pieces, but once I get them home, let them rest a couple days, they hardly move.  I've ripped KD 2x10s and 2x12s from Lowes multiple times, and it's worked out well for me.

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Forget 2x4s if it's going outside.  Find some cedar or cypress from a more reputable dealer...it should still be dirt cheap but it won't be as bad as the garbage from the box stores, and it will be rot resistant unlike the spruce/pine/fir that you build houses with.

You're not setting yourself up for a learning experience here, you're setting yourself up for a boatload of frustration, and ultimately, failure.  Buy slightly better materials, your time is worth it.

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I would recommend that you rethink your project. Making a Morris chair is going to take a lot of work, so why waste it using construction lumber. No matter how carefully you choose the wood & how carefully you build, it's going to make a crappy piece of furniture that will not last long outside.

Instead, why not use that construction lumber to build some shelving for the storage room, or a workbench, or stuff for your shop. You'll gain great experience & it won't matter that it's lousy wood or that it doesn't look great.

And welcome to the forum.

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Also, as far as boards warping when you rip them...yep.  That's gonna happen regardless of species, softwood/hardwood, or where you buy your material.  Wood moves when tension is released.  You do your best to stack the cards in your favor by buying high-quality, properly milled and kiln-dried lumber, but you'll still face this problem to one degree or another in every project that you endeavor.  Which is why you always give yourself a little extra width when you're rough cutting your parts, and you own a jointer and a planer.  Just part of the game.

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I am not one to stop someone who wants to run in circles, but try to understand the type of lumber your are working with.  'd never advocate building anything of use of  the construction lumber I see locally here in Chicago.  But if you are west of the Mississippi, your framing lumber might be mostly douglas fir, which is a far better species that the pine/spruce/true fir mix we get over here.  In the south you might get southern yellow pine, which is also a better species.  In california you can even get utility grade redwood somewhat affordably, I think.  

But the construction lumber I see at the box stores in the chicago area is grade A crap.  It is what is left over after they take the better logs for paper pulp and lawn mulch.  

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Thanks drzaius and Eric...

I will admit, I built this super solid bench out of 2 x 4s recently for a friend last weekend. It was the first time I've ever used 2 x 4s for anything other than a shop shelf or to prop something else up. It turned out to be a real pain in the ass. All the 2x4s were slightly warped. You can't plane them worth a damn. You can ding the wood with your fingernail let alone an accidental tap with a #4 hand plane, and jointing them together without gaps is pretty much impossible. 

So, it pissed me off... and when I run into an obstacle like this, my first response is to dig in and learn all that I can about the beast to soak up the knowledge and experience. That being said... I really do not want a 2 x 4 Morris Chair. You guys are right. I would prefer to make it from Cedar or some other more outside friendly wood. I am, however, completely inexperienced at buying wood. I went to Home Depot's website, and they have a LOT of Cedar options. The only Cedar that I've seen is on the same store aisle as the Poplar/Oak/Mahogany "appearance boards." They are only surfaced on 2 sides, and have a rough side that no one would want to sit on. I do not have a planer or a jointer yet, so I have pretty much been buying only S4S lumber. 

Also, since I am saving for a jointer... I am in serious budget mode. So, $3 per 10ft. 2 x 4's sounds great. On Homedepot.com, I can't even tell how much a comparbale Cedar would cost, becuase they have 3 pages of them, and their prices range from $9 per board to $30 per board.

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Just get away from the Home Depot website.  You're building furniture, not a deck.

Find some reputable hardwood dealers and go take a look at their stock.  It's not gonna be quite as cheap as SPF lumber from the BORG, but you can get pretty close.

I'll admit, your bench looks pretty neat for 2x4s.  Well done.  But you admitted yourself that it was a huge PITA to work with...why subject yourself to that again?  This entire pursuit that we undertake...building...it's about quality, not how cheaply you can get something done.  Can't afford a bunch of quality lumber?  Pick a different project that requires less lumber.  Make some boxes, a little table with a drawer, a small cabinet.  Build some skills and push off the big projects for when you have more money, more tools, and more experience.  We all have to crawl before we can walk.

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18 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Just get away from the Home Depot website.  You're building furniture, not a deck.

Find some reputable hardwood dealers and go take a look at their stock.  It's not gonna be quite as cheap as SPF lumber from the BORG, but you can get pretty close.

I'll admit, your bench looks pretty neat for 2x4s.  Well done.  But you admitted yourself that it was a huge PITA to work with...why subject yourself to that again?  This entire pursuit that we undertake...building...it's about quality, not how cheaply you can get something done.  Can't afford a bunch of quality lumber?  Pick a different project that requires less lumber.  Make some boxes, a little table with a drawer, a small cabinet.  Build some skills and push off the big projects for when you have more money, more tools, and more experience.  We all have to crawl before we can walk.

This is great advice!  Grab some poplar and build some shop furniture or grab a smaller amount of something nicer to build a smaller project where you can learn a "new to you" technique that stretches your abilities.  

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I absolutely know that woodworking is something that people take very seriously, and it should be. I also know that there are long-standing traditions, 99% of which are based on experience. I also understand completely how annoying it is when some newbie rolls in and starts rattling of yet another thread about how to make something awesome, fast, and cheaply. Meanwhile, you all are $20K+ deep in your shops and think that $700 for 100 bdft of quarter sawn white oak is an awesome deal! So it busts your balls to hear someone using the term Morris Chair, and 2 x 4 in the same sentence. I not only "get it," but I agree.

Here is the full story... I have a literal ache in my heart to build a Stickley Mission-style Spindle Bed. Gustav Stickley, and maybe even more so, William Morris, are literal heroes of mine. I have spent the past few years building mid-century modern coffee tables from Home Depot 3/4" plywood and veneering them with nice veneers that I get off the internet. But I have never built a full on, solid hardwood piece of Craftsman style furniture. I have been all over the internet looking for and asking for quotes on quarter sawn white oak so that I can make my bed. I have gotten pretty good at Google Sketchup, and have drawn up the plans based on Gregory Paolini's loose plan in this book.  There are three large lumber yards here in Charleston, SC... and they all literally told me that they cannot do business with me on Quarter Sawn White Oak unless I buy 100 bd ft.

I am not broke, but I do not earn the kind of money that allows me to dedicate $1,000 to buying a pile of wood. So, I have to save and save for something like that. In the meantime, however, I want to go through the motions of building a Morris Chair, a Prarie Style Spindle Chair,  and maybe a couple of bookcases out of el cheapo wood, so that I can see how non-plywood lumber works. And then along came my above-mentioned 2x4 project. So the light bulb went off. Maybe a better question would have been... what is a wood that I can afford that has the lowest price, but is still enough like oak to be of value to me as practice?

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Grab some poplar from Home Cheapo and build that Morris chair!  Leg stock can be 3/4 stock glued up. If there is a will there is a way! If your inspired to build a chair...build that damn chair! Don't hold back for anyone. You have limited budget, that's fine. No power planer or jointer, who cares! Based on the photo of that bench YOU HAVE SKILLS  and understand how to select wood!

CHOP,CHOP,CHOP.........JUST DO IT!

 

-Ace- 

 

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Yep, poplar will be much more stable than 2x4s for only a little more money.  

Nobody here is advising you to not build the chair, only suggesting a little higher quality lumber to save you the headaches.  Bench looks awesome!  

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Hey... Jay Bates has built a strong YouTube channel that has turned into his career by primarily making pretty nice (indoor) furniture from home center 2x crap.

It sounds like this is a bit of a prototype project?  If it is a true prototype, who cares what kind of wood you use?  2x will be difficult to work with and won't have the hardness of oak, but you can still learn from it.

I'd vote for cedar though, it can't be too much more expensive than 2x and you'll have a better chance of a nice piece at the end of the day.

I REALLY like that bench, if that's the piece you made.

We don't all have $20K shops or 20 years of experience here, either.  

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Speaking of lumber yards though...

What is the big deal about going to the lumber yard vs. Home Depot? I get it. I hate Wal*Mart, and huge mega stores staffed by dumb teenagers that know nothing. But for poplar, plain sawn red oak, nothing-special-pine boards, and maybe some C-grade Mahogany or Maple... why not go to Home Depot? The lumber yards here in Charleston, at least the two that I've dealt with, are huge, impersonal, difficult to understand the flow, and you are never sure what you will pay exactly until checkout. 

At H.D. I see $5.97/ ft. I rummage through the boards to find one that looks at least okay... I measure it... and I'm happy. To get the same board from the lumber yard, I have to go to a guy behind a computer; he prints out some papers that I have to take to a central small building outside, hand to a guy, and he comes back 5 min. later carrying a board over his head. It was a lame experience. 

19 minutes ago, bleedinblue said:

For that chair you're definitely going to want a Domino. 

1

A Domino? You mean like for joining boards?

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It sucks you don't have a better hardwood dealer, that makes all the difference.  I have one close to me that is OK, and my preferred dealer is about 40 minutes away...but both allow customers to sort through their lumber stacks.

The Festool Domino is the love child of a biscuit joiner and a router.  It's awesome.  I was joking though, it's stupid expensive and shouldn't be one of your first tools.

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For lower grade lumber, there's nothing at all wrong with HD or Lowes.  Building a relationship with your local hardwood dealers is important tho as eventually, that will get you lower prices there.  Repeat customers usually get discounts and perks that Joe Blow off the street doesn't usually get.

As for the Domino, yes, it's nice and speeds up joinery but, it's not a "requirement" for a shop.  It's a luxury!  I own it, love it, but, it's a luxury!

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You half answered your own questions.  1, Borg employees usually know less than nothing.  They often know bad information they happily pass on to anyone who will listen. 

2, price.  You pay 5.75 per LINEAR foot for 3/4" thick 6" wood red oak at hd. That is about 5x the cost at a yard. 

3, accessibility.  Home centers have a few boards of a few options of hardwood.  Your dealer should have a few hundred bf of a lot of options from super expensive to the 2$/bf stuff.

4, quality. Lumber yards normally sell to professionals.  They expect dry, true to grade, consistent behavior from the product they buy. HD buyers could give 2 craps less as long as someone will buy it. 

5,EDUCATION. if you walk into a quality lumber yard where you check your ego at the door,  my experience is that the workers there are happy to help and teach you. Don't expect them to stop and hold your hands all day but if their not busy,they'll usually walk you through how they measure and price, what they have suitable in your price range based on the parameters you set. 

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