Chet Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I have never had the occasion to use any epoxy but I imagine that as my skills progress I will eventually have a need. One thing I don't recall seeing in any of the post here about West Systems epoxy is the shelf life of the unmixed product. Is it endless, does weather have any thing to do with the shelf life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Good question and I have no first hand experience, however I'm sure I've read guys have said that their gallon size pump jugs last them for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtnwoodworker Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I've heard of people having unmixed cans anywhere from 5-10 years, and they still work fine. As long as it comes out of the pump I would suspect that there would not be a problem. Can't offer any advice on the weather changing the shelf life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I have it and really like it. My shop fluctuates temps in the winter as I only heat the shop when I'm there. I did lose a 1/2 can of resin after about 3 years I think because of those temp fluctuations. It is expensive but, it's super easy to use and is just the right choice for some projects and applications. I find it comforting to know if I need it, it's in the shop and ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxerjoe04 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Been wondering the same thing, wouldn't mind trying it out but it's pretty expensive stuff. Which hardener does everyone prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtnwoodworker Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I use the 205 hardener. Haven't needed anything that cures slower than that yet. Like Tiods said there are some things that just lend themselves better to using epoxy. Especially if you are having to glue end grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxerjoe04 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Dumb question, so what's the difference between pot life and working time? Would think working time is you sitting there gluing in a bunch of slats into something but wasn't sure what pot life exactly means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, Gixxerjoe04 said: Dumb question, so what's the difference between pot life and working time? Would think working time is you sitting there gluing in a bunch of slats into something but wasn't sure what pot life exactly means. As far as I know, it's pretty much the same thing. 22 minutes ago, Gixxerjoe04 said: Been wondering the same thing, wouldn't mind trying it out but it's pretty expensive stuff. Which hardener does everyone prefer? I have the 205 and the 206 on hand. The 206 is what they call the "fast" hardener and has a little bit of color to it. The 205 is the "slow" hardener but, is super clear! If you're filling knots or holes with it, suggest having a torch or heat gun on hand. The curing process creates air bubbles that are quickly knocked out with heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtnwoodworker Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Tiods is right they are exactly the same thing. It is a measure of the amount of time that you have after the two are mixed together until they start to cure into a solid state. The 206 is the slow hardener and 205 is the fast. Below are descriptions from Jamestown Distributors site. West System 206 Slow Hardener is a low-viscosity epoxy curing agent for use when extended working and cure time is needed or to provide adequate working time at higher temperatures. At 72-degrees, 206 Slow Hardener will have a 20-25 minute pot life. When combined with 105 Resin in a five-part resin to one-part hardener ratio, the cured resin/hardener mixture yields a rigid, high-strength, moisture-resistant solid with excellent bonding and coating properties. West System 205 Fast Hardener is a low-viscosity epoxy curing agent for use when shorter working and cure time is needed or to provide adequate working time at cooler temperatures. At 72-degrees, 205 Fast Hardener will have a 9-12 minute Pot Life. When combined with WEST 105 Resin in a five-part resin to one-part hardener ratio, the cured resin/hardener mixture yields a rigid, high-strength, moisture-resistant solid with excellent bonding and coating properties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, midtnwoodworker said: Tiods is right they are exactly the same thing. It is a measure of the amount of time that you have after the two are mixed together until they start to cure into a solid state. The 206 is the slow hardener and 205 is the fast. Below are descriptions from Jamestown Distributors site. West System 206 Slow Hardener is a low-viscosity epoxy curing agent for use when extended working and cure time is needed or to provide adequate working time at higher temperatures. At 72-degrees, 206 Slow Hardener will have a 20-25 minute pot life. When combined with 105 Resin in a five-part resin to one-part hardener ratio, the cured resin/hardener mixture yields a rigid, high-strength, moisture-resistant solid with excellent bonding and coating properties. West System 205 Fast Hardener is a low-viscosity epoxy curing agent for use when shorter working and cure time is needed or to provide adequate working time at cooler temperatures. At 72-degrees, 205 Fast Hardener will have a 9-12 minute Pot Life. When combined with WEST 105 Resin in a five-part resin to one-part hardener ratio, the cured resin/hardener mixture yields a rigid, high-strength, moisture-resistant solid with excellent bonding and coating properties Poop.. I knew I should of run out and looked at the cans first Thanks for the correction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Do you need to do anything with the pumps between uses? Can I just store the containers with the pumps attached for years, ready to go whenever you need them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Just now, Beechwood Chip said: Do you need to do anything with the pumps between uses? Can I just store the containers with the pumps attached for years, ready to go whenever you need them? I leave the pumps in mine all the time and never had an issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtnwoodworker Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, TIODS said: I leave the pumps in mine all the time and never had an issue with it. Same here, but I typically use mine up within 2-3 years so can't offer any advice on longer term than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewyo Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I use it often for exotics, bent lamination, and outdoor projects. It's expensive, but it goes a long way and, like Kev. said, it's good to have on hand. You can leave the pumps in. According to Triple H , West Systems used to say it has unlimited shelf life but they change it to "many years". They talk about avoiding freeze/thaw cycles and color darkening with age. Here is the Technical Data Sheet for 105/205. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 It lasts years. I don't know how many. In fact, I don't ever remember any going bad just from sitting. If you buy the 5 gallon kit, it will darken in the opaque 4-1/2 gallon resin jug, but still seems to work okay. I've never washed out a pump, but did have one go bad once, so I keep a set of spares. It's nice now that the pumps come with various length pickup legs to work in their different sizes of kits. Mine sits in a trailer, or storage building, so does get subjected to freezing temperatures, but it rarely gets seriously below freezing here. I keep a gallon kit, with a couple of choices of hardeners in a plastic bin to catch any drips. In the bin are some waxless paper mixing cups, mixing sticks, disposable gloves, a quart of acetone, some silica thickener, and a roll of paper towels. A lid on the bin keeps dust out of it, and I'm always ready to go when I need to use some. The first time I ever used it was in the mid 1980's on a very hot day. The instructions for use have gotten a lot better since then. I mixed up a whole quart. Before I could finish stirring, it turned into a monster foam, and melted the plastic tub I was mixing it in. Now my typical batch, if it's not too hot, is 6 strokes each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, Tom King said: Now my typical batch, if it's not too hot, is 6 strokes each. Wow! My typical batch is 1 pump.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I'm repairing houses. I mix 1 pump batches sometimes. The smallest batches of epoxy I mix are for putting golf club heads on, but that's a special black epoxy mixed in graduated 1 oz. plastic cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 1 minute ago, Tom King said: I'm repairing houses. I mix 1 pump batches sometimes. The smallest batches of epoxy I mix are for putting golf club heads on, but that's a special black epoxy mixed in graduated 1 oz. plastic cups. Still, knowing how far a little goes, that's an amazing amount! Use what you need I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Gixxerjoe04 said: Dumb question, so what's the difference between pot life and working time? Would think working time is you sitting there gluing in a bunch of slats into something but wasn't sure what pot life exactly means. I make a distinction between pot life and working time: mixed epoxy will harden much more quickly when it's in a dixie cup than it will when spread out thin. Pot life is only like ten or fifteen minutes before it heats up and hardens in the wink of an eye, whereas if you poured it out thin on a paper plate, it would stay somewhat viscous for up to an hour or more (oddly, the thinner the layer, the longer it stays viscous). So that's what I consider working time...the amount of time you have to spread it around on a joint and get it clamped...which is much longer than the pot life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxerjoe04 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Ah, thanks for the info, sounds like the 206 would be good stuff to have if I only bought one to start out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gixxerjoe04 said: Ah, thanks for the info, sounds like the 206 would be good stuff to have if I only bought one to start out with. Yep! It's another one of those "shop purchases" that I never regret! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Z. Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Eric. said: ...oddly, the thinner the layer, the longer it stays viscous... Not really odd at all. The reaction is exothermic, and is also sensitive to heat. So if you keep it in the pot, the heat it generates speeds the cure time. Spread out, the heat generated can't really affect the mix, so the reaction works at ambient temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I use 205 and 207. I started using 207 after reading HHH's tips on it. I love that it is clear and has roughly forever open time. Of course it has the downside of needing to be pretty warm. Even at 60+ degrees it took a long long time to set up. If your cans get too cold, West Systems told me I can put them in some hot water, turned upside down and it should return to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Does it have the potential to get in the grain of the wood and cause problems with the finish like PVA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Chet K. said: Does it have the potential to get in the grain of the wood and cause problems with the finish like PVA. It's going to fill grain in the areas you apply it. It takes finish very well tho unlike PVA glue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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