Talimore Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Hello Everyone, I hope you are all well. I have been reading through the forums and I read the pinned topic for new woodworkers but I'm still running into some tough choices. But first a little background... I used to do some decent woodworking with my father years ago and I loved it but have never had the opportunity to own my own shop or have a situation where I can do woodworking on a constant basis. When my father kept getting deployed in the military and I eventually moved away to college and got married, etc, my woodworking stopped. It has been many years since all of that and I'm finally in a position where I can woodwork again. I have contacted a local Amish Community and commissioned them to build me a workshop. I have a choice of 12x20 or 12x24 for $2,100 or $2,600 respectively (I know pretty cheap). I'm ordering on Monday and still haven't made up my mind. I know I'll need to run electric to it, put lights in, insulate, and throw some OSB on for walls (thinking that's another ~250). Now were up to $2,650 or $3,150 (added 300 to have shed delivered). Last but not least I need tools but in the area that I live, the craigslist selection for tools is next to non-existent so my only real option is buying new. I currently have a set of Dewalt Power Tools (circular saw, drill, jigsaw, reciprocating saw, impact driver) and that's about it. Some small odds and ends but that's it. I want to keep my overall budget at $4,000 or less and was looking for advise on what I should get. I know what I want but I'm afraid I'll go above budget. I know I need hand-tools and I want a lot of them but don't know what to get. From a power tool standpoint, I want a tablesaw and a drill press (REALLY want a planer but can't find a cheap one) and I found both of them for about 120 refurbished. I also want a sander. I know this is a disorganized mess of a post but I'm happy if your reading this because that means you have reached the bottom of my post and are willing to help me. Thank you to all and anyone who are willing to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 First of welcome to the forum. It will be easier for people here to give you some guidance if you let them know what type of projects you see in your future. A lot of woodworkers consider the table saw the center piece of the shop. But other things to consider are the types of lumber you have available to you. If you are buying rough cut lumber it is next to impossible to operate with out a jointer and planer to get the rough cut flat and square. The other thing you have to decide is if you are going to be mainly a power tool worker or hand tool worker or some where in between. The other thing you might hear lot on this forum is don't buy a tool until the project you are working on requires it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 This is going to sound trite, but, "patience grasshopper"! If you're working at a regular job, set aside a little each week, till you have enough for "a" major tool, t/s band saw, drill press, search craigslist daily when you have savings, and find a planer, ask here for advise on how to value each used tool... the crew here will help you with open arms. This is the most knowledgeable bunch of wood butchers, you'll ever run into in one place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimore Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, Chet K. said: First of welcome to the forum. It will be easier for people here to give you some guidance if you let them know what type of projects you see in your future. A lot of woodworkers consider the table saw the center piece of the shop. But other things to consider are the types of lumber you have available to you. If you are buying rough cut lumber it is next to impossible to operate with out a jointer and planer to get the rough cut flat and square. The other thing you have to decide is if you are going to be mainly a power tool worker or hand tool worker or some where in between. The other thing you might hear lot on this forum is don't buy a tool until the project you are working on requires it. Hello and thank you for your warm welcomes. I have mainly used power tools in the past but would love to get into more handtools. I will start by building tables, it is what I used to do and would like to get back into doing. Custom tables for myself and family members, hence why I want a table saw. In regards to your jointer/planer question. I'm looking for a good lumber source in my area and I'm actually running into difficulty... I had a great family owned lumber yard back where I used to live but cant find anything in the Buffalo Area so far. I live in-between Buffalo and Erie PA but don't have a truck anymore. I need to find a place that offers some form of delivery or buy in small quantities. With my hatchback I can easily fit 8 foot long, and even 10ft long boards in it and, even though I don't like doing it, I strap anything larger to my ceiling. 9 minutes ago, RichardA said: This is going to sound trite, but, "patience grasshopper"! If you're working at a regular job, set aside a little each week, till you have enough for "a" major tool, t/s band saw, drill press, search craigslist daily when you have savings, and find a planer, ask here for advise on how to value each used tool... the crew here will help you with open arms. This is the most knowledgeable bunch of wood butchers, you'll ever run into in one place! Hello and I appreciate the advice. That is what I've been doing. I have a little over 4k in cash I have saved over the past couple of years for this purpose. Now that I have purchased my house that I will live in for a while (many years) and have my wood shop approved by my town. I'm ready to go. I could buy all the tools I want if I just "charged them" but my wife and I are credit card free now and NEVER going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Welcome to the forums.. Suggest the largest shop possible because you'll never say "I wish my shop was smaller"! If you're going to be a power tool shop then start with the basics. Table saw, jointer, and planer. After that, bandsaw, drill press, and drum sander would be next on my list. Richard is correct, you don't have to do everything at once. The shop has to be first! If you skimp there then, you'll wish you hadn't later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 9 minutes ago, Talimore said: Hello and thank you for your warm welcomes. I have mainly used power tools in the past but would love to get into more handtools. I will start by building tables, it is what I used to do and would like to get back into doing. Custom tables for myself and family members, hence why I want a table saw. In regards to your jointer/planer question. I'm looking for a good lumber source in my area and I'm actually running into difficulty... I had a great family owned lumber yard back where I used to live but cant find anything in the Buffalo Area so far. I live in-between Buffalo and Erie PA but don't have a truck anymore. I need to find a place that offers some form of delivery or buy in small quantities. With my hatchback I can easily fit 8 foot long, and even 10ft long boards in it and, even though I don't like doing it, I strap anything larger to my ceiling. Hello and I appreciate the advice. That is what I've been doing. I have a little over 4k in cash I have saved over the past couple of years for this purpose. Now that I have purchased my house that I will live in for a while (many years) and have my wood shop approved by my town. I'm ready to go. I could buy all the tools I want if I just "charged them" but my wife and I are credit card free now and NEVER going back. Take your time, don't do credit! But understand this! As a hobby or a business, this is a most expensive way to enjoy your life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimore Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, RichardA said: Take your time, don't do credit! But understand this! As a hobby or a business, this is a most expensive way to enjoy your life! Agreed and I never will do credit. Not having a single dollar on a credit card was a long process for my wife and I but we've never been happier, hence the 4k hard budget. I would have more but this weekend I'm turning my large porch into a sun room and redoing my bathroom. Bathrooms and windows are expensive lol 12 minutes ago, TIODS said: Welcome to the forums.. Suggest the largest shop possible because you'll never say "I wish my shop was smaller"! If you're going to be a power tool shop then start with the basics. Table saw, jointer, and planer. After that, bandsaw, drill press, and drum sander would be next on my list. Richard is correct, you don't have to do everything at once. The shop has to be first! If you skimp there then, you'll wish you hadn't later. Hello, and thanks for the comments. I will see if I can't fit a saw, jointer and planer into my budget. I have never actually used a jointer but have used a planer and love table saws Since it's a new shop Im going to be putting PCP piping around it for dust collection. My only question is this, is it ok to put the PVC in the walls (inside the insulation) or should I install it after? My concern is heat and some people say static build-up on the PVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, RichardA said: Take your time, don't do credit! But understand this! As a hobby or a business, this is a most expensive way to enjoy your life! I don't agree. Back when I was single, enjoying life was a whole lot more expensive than making sawdust! Welcome OP to the forum and good luck with your new shop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..Kev Posted July 15, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 15 minutes ago, Talimore said: Since it's a new shop Im going to be putting PCP piping around it for dust collection. My only question is this, is it ok to put the PVC in the walls (inside the insulation) or should I install it after? My concern is heat and some people say static build-up on the PVC. Suggest outside the walls where you can get to it. Fact is that your shop will see many changes over the years and you'll want to change that several times. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dknapp34 Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Don't know about buffalo, but if you can drive to Rochester, we have some good places to buy wood. Pittsford Lumber has a decent selection. It's a bit on the expensive side though. Lakeshore hardwoods in Victor (a few more minutes drive east) has a slightly less decent selection, but has better prices and the people there are very friendly. Their main store is up in the north country and, from what I hear, they have an excellent selection of domestics and exotics. If they don't have something in stock at the Victor store, they will ship it down from the main store to the Victor store for you. Niagara Lumber in Buffalo looks like it might have a good selection of hardwoods, but I've never been, so I can't speak to it personally. Also, I have to imagine that being close to PA means you will have a ton of choices for lumber if you are willing to drive a little bit. As for the tools, I would suggest getting a tablesaw first, given what you want to build. If you can afford it, but a jointer and a planer. Otherwise, buy a jack plane and a jointer plane and roll up your sleeves and start making shavings. You can always buy pre-milled lumber, which won't be perfectly square and flat, but can be made to be a lot easier with a little hand plane work. I also would recommend a router, as you can do a lot with one (from joinery to edge shaping, etc), and it's relatively cheap to get a decent one. I would not bother with the drill press for now, unless there is something specific you had in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 TIODS is 100% right. Get the larger shop if you can make it fit your budget. I have a 12' x 24' and it has served me well for about 10 years. I'm starting to outgrow it so I am considering a smaller building for lumber storage and finishing. You'll be amazed at how much stuff you just "collect" through the years and shop space gets more cramped. Also, while moving more to hand tools is great, don't underestimate how much space is taken up by them and the benches needed as well. Not a bad thing, just a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimore Posted July 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dknapp34 said: Don't know about buffalo, but if you can drive to Rochester, we have some good places to buy wood. Pittsford Lumber has a decent selection. It's a bit on the expensive side though. Lakeshore hardwoods in Victor (a few more minutes drive east) has a slightly less decent selection, but has better prices and the people there are very friendly. Their main store is up in the north country and, from what I hear, they have an excellent selection of domestics and exotics. If they don't have something in stock at the Victor store, they will ship it down from the main store to the Victor store for you. Niagara Lumber in Buffalo looks like it might have a good selection of hardwoods, but I've never been, so I can't speak to it personally. Also, I have to imagine that being close to PA means you will have a ton of choices for lumber if you are willing to drive a little bit. As for the tools, I would suggest getting a tablesaw first, given what you want to build. If you can afford it, but a jointer and a planer. Otherwise, buy a jack plane and a jointer plane and roll up your sleeves and start making shavings. You can always buy pre-milled lumber, which won't be perfectly square and flat, but can be made to be a lot easier with a little hand plane work. I also would recommend a router, as you can do a lot with one (from joinery to edge shaping, etc), and it's relatively cheap to get a decent one. I would not bother with the drill press for now, unless there is something specific you had in mind. Hello, I looked into Niagara Lumber but thought their prices were a bit high. However, I decided to just drive there now and take a look and they have about a pallet or two full of their different selections and their prices are a little on the high side but what I found out, is that their prices including shipping! Which is great for me because I don't have my truck anymore haha. Now I just have to become more familiar with the different wood options in front of me. EDIT: They also require a 20 board foot min. So I should have my cut list before ordering! Edited July 15, 2016 by Talimore information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I agree with the others about the larger sized shop. My space is very small, and you will appreciate more room. As for tools, I would go table saw, jointer, planer as the starters, even if you want to do a lot of hand tool work. Then after more saving bandsaw and drum sander. As for lumber, there are a lot of dealers online, or look at Woodfinder.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 Blow most of your budget on a 3HP table saw and an assortment of quality blades, start building basic projects with plywood and S3S lumber, then spend the rest of your life putting together your dream shop. This is essentially what I did. Ten or so years later I'm approaching "completion." If you think you'll fully outfit a woodworking shop over the next several months with 4k, I've got news for ya... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Moore Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I'm going to incur the wrath of Eric but, I have been using a Delta 10 inch contractors saw for 20 years and it has served me well. yes I would like a 3 hp cabinet saw but for a new wood worker to me it's not a show stopper. Get what you can afford. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted July 15, 2016 Report Share Posted July 15, 2016 I have a Craftsman table saw from the '80's, and, while I could really use a cabinet saw, this one cuts wood. Yes, if you can, buy your last saw first, other than that, let your tool purchases be project oriented. Get what you need for your next project, build slowly from there with each project. You can get by for a while buying s4s lumber, more expensive but you don't need a planer or jointer. There is also the option of using hand tools more. You can b get a decent hardpoint hand saw for under $50. You can't sharpen them, but they work well for a long enough time. You can also look at hand planes too, I just bought a used #4 Record for $5. It will take a bit of work to get it the way I want it, but the tools are out there and affordable. Used is always an option. All you really need is a way to make big pieces of wood smaller, and a way to fit them back together again. There are a lot of things that can be made with very few tools. Start by knocking together stuff for the shop (shelves, cabinets, saw benches [yes, bench, not a horse, I use them constantly, handiest thing I ever built], racks, jigs, appliances, etc.), you will need all kinds of things and it is great practice, usually with cheap wood too. A hand saw, a hammer, nails, and glue and you're on your way. You will be a full blown addict in no time, and you will find a way to get the next project off the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 I recommend a good tablesaw, followed by a power planer. The jointer can be of the meat-powered variety, and in conjunction with the planer, still allow you to use rough lumber. You will probably want a good powered jointer ASAP, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimore Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 UPDATE: I have purchased a 12x24 (went with the bigger size as recommended by so many). It will be here in 2-3 weeks but now I'm looking at tool selection. I was thinking of getting cheaper tools and then upgrading when they break. Here is what I was looking at getting and then, like I said, upgrading or getting more tools as time went on: Jointer: $250Planer: $255Table Saw: $125 All together, with tax, I'm looking at ~$685. I would build a station for my Table Saw to make the bed bigger. Any opinions or thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post drzaius Posted July 22, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Myself, if I was going cheap, I'd go used. Any new tools in that price range just are not going to be worth having. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, drzaius said: Myself, if I was going cheap, I'd go used. Any new tools in that price range just are not going to be worth having. +1+1+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat60 Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 I.agree...Didnt.want.to.be.the.first.to.say.it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimore Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 14 minutes ago, drzaius said: Myself, if I was going cheap, I'd go used. Any new tools in that price range just are not going to be worth having. Normally I would agree with you and I can likely get a table saw that way but I find almost nothing for Planers and Jointers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Then keep saving. All you buy yourself with crappy tools is frustration. Rome wasn't built in a week. Workshops aren't either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 I would save up and buy the best tools you can. You want to spend $150 on a table saw now, but when you want to upgrade, now you have to get rid of (little resale value), if you give it away that initial $150 could have been better invested, you will need to work around until it's gone, frustration from not having the ability to fine tune, now do that 4 times with the other tools on your list, and your new 12 x 24 will be a large storage area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimore Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Can anyone give advice as to what I should look for when buying the following: Planer Table Saw Jointer Are there specific things I should look for when looking at the second hand market or even the first hand market? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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