New Woodworker needing some Advice please


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I'd recommend getting a decent Table Saw first, and worry about the Jointer and Planer later. You can joint on a Tablesaw with some Jig building. No it won't be as accurate, but it will suffice until you can get something better. Especially if you are buying s4s lumber, you can get by without a planer, just takes a lot of elbow grease.

I'll join the din, and recommend the Ridgid 4512. I got mine used, but it's really hard to beat for the price, and you may be able to fit the box into your hatchback. If $550 is too dear, even one of those 10" craftsman saws you can find locally will probably last you longer than the Ryobi would.

Checking CL in your area, there is an old Craftsman Jointer over in Erie. http://erie.craigslist.org/tls/5683336213.html, and he has a DeWalt planer for repair if you are feeling handy. $100 for both or $75 OBO for the Jointer.

Getting the Ridgid and the Craftsman Jointer comes in just under your total, with enough money to pick up replacement parts for the Planer.

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Speaking as a person who is still very new to woodworking, I started out with cheap tools. I had a Skil 10" tablesaw from Lowes that when I was just doing little things here and there was okay but I didn't know any better. When I got to the point that I wanted to do actual woodworking projects, I very quickly got to the point of hating my tools and avoided certain projects because 1) the tools took WAY too long to set up and still cut badly, and 2) due to the low quality of the tools I experienced more kickbacks and scary situations than I ever care to in my life. All in all, I probably spent $500 on cheap tools that I could have dumped into a very nice used tablesaw and had something that would let me do things well.

I've since scoured craigslist and have replaced many of those tools I bought new with used ones that are far and above what I used to have and I've spent less on the used ones than I did the new ones.

Bottom line, even if you can't find many used tools around there, save your money for something quality. Buy once, cry once.

13 minutes ago, Talimore said:

Can anyone give advice as to what I should look for when buying the following:

Planer
Table Saw
Jointer

Are there specific things I should look for when looking at the second hand market or even the first hand market? Thanks in advance.

 

Tablesaw:

  1. Cast iron top (even if it's rusty, they are not difficult to restore as long as it's not pitted)
  2. Belt driven 
  3. Make sure the arbor is not bent
  4. If it's got a nice fence on it, that's a plus, but if not you can always install a new one

Can't speak to the other two... don't have a jointer and my planer is a Porter Cable lunchbox planer that, despite only being $250 brand new, has been very good to me thus far. I'm told planers with helical cutters are nice, though.

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Thanks for all the replies so far and I messaged that Craiglist user in PA.

In addition to these tools I was hoping to get a router. I had a cheap one for a while (85$ I think) and it serviced me nicely. The only reason I don't have it anymore is I resold it a while back when we were moving into a very tiny apartment and downsized our lives.

Any advise on router choices or do you think I'm good with my 85$ router? It was a dewalt (forgot the serial number).

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12 minutes ago, Talimore said:

Can anyone give advice as to what I should look for when buying the following:

Planer
Table Saw
Jointer

Are there specific things I should look for when looking at the second hand market or even the first hand market? Thanks in advance.

 

I won't pretend to be an expert here, but this is what I would look for.

Planer: Make sure the cutting head moves smoothly up and down the posts. If it binds or moves unevenly, you're going to have problems keeping it square.

Table Saw: Spin the blade by hand, and watch for any noticeable runout. You may also be able to feel it by holding a finger just behind the teeth of the blade (with the saw unplugged!) and spinning it by hand. As long as the arbor is straight, and the blade can be made 90 degrees to the table, you should be fine. You can bring along a 1-2-3 block, a combination square, or a machinists square to check alignment as well.

Turn the saw on, and see how much it vibrates. Cheaper saws have a certain amount of vibration inherent to their lightness, but if it rattles around excessively, it's going to cause a lot of problems.

Jointer: The biggest thing to watch for is whether the beds are parallel. Bring a reliable straight edge as long as the tool (an aluminum level may be good enough) and check it over. Make sure they height adjustment doesn't rack. Make sure the blades aren't rusted in or seized. Also, before buying, do some research on if the blades can be sharpened, or if there are replacements still available to buy.

 

With all of these, bring a board with you and try the tool out. You'll probably feel any problems better than you could spot them. Trust your instinct, and always be willing to walk away.

 

In terms of buying on CL, I've found almost everyone I've purchased from is willing to knock $10 or $20 off the price if asked nicely after you inspect the tools. If they are firm on the price, they aren't going to refuse to sell it to you if you try to haggle.

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on routers, 2 1/4 HP or better... variable speed is nice, too. If you can swing it, get a plunge router. My first one (and current one) is a fixed-base and it gets used a lot but not having the plunge capability makes certain things harder (mortises, etc). I've since made a makeshift router table to mount it in and that helps in a lot of aspects but I'm keeping an eye out for a decent plunge router.

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If you're only gonna have one router, you MUST buy a plunge router.  Otherwise find another hobby because you ain't doin' this one right.  I think brand isn't that important as long as you buy from one of the big names like Dewalt, Makita, Porter Cable, etc.  Try to buy from real tool dealers online and not from the box stores.  They don't sell the same quality tools, even though they look identical and the model numbers are almost identical.  They put cheap parts in the box store tools because most homeowners who buy them don't know the difference and never use them enough to find out there is a difference.

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On July 15, 2016 at 0:21 PM, Talimore said:

Hello Everyone, I hope you are all well.

I have been reading through the forums and I read the pinned topic for new woodworkers but I'm still running into some tough choices. But first a little background...

I used to do some decent woodworking with my father years ago and I loved it but have never had the opportunity to own my own shop or have a situation where I can do woodworking on a constant basis. When my father kept getting deployed in the military and I eventually moved away to college and got married, etc, my woodworking stopped. It has been many years since all of that and I'm finally in a position where I can woodwork again. I have contacted a local Amish Community and commissioned them to build me a workshop.

I have a choice of 12x20 or 12x24 for $2,100 or $2,600 respectively (I know pretty cheap). I'm ordering on Monday and still haven't made up my mind. I know I'll need to run electric to it, put lights in, insulate, and throw some OSB on for walls (thinking that's another ~250). Now were up to $2,650 or $3,150 (added 300 to have shed delivered). Last but not least I need tools but in the area that I live, the craigslist selection for tools is next to non-existent so my only real option is buying new.

I currently have a set of Dewalt Power Tools (circular saw, drill, jigsaw, reciprocating saw, impact driver) and that's about it. Some small odds and ends but that's it. I want to keep my overall budget at $4,000 or less and was looking for advise on what I should get. I know what I want but I'm afraid I'll go above budget. I know I need hand-tools and I want a lot of them but don't know what to get. From a power tool standpoint, I want a tablesaw and a drill press (REALLY want a planer but can't find a cheap one) and I found both of them for about 120 refurbished. I also want a sander.

I know this is a disorganized mess of a post but I'm happy if your reading this because that means you have reached the bottom of my post and are willing to help me. Thank you to all and anyone who are willing to help!

Hi talimore,

i don't really like telling ppl what to spend there money on but I would definitely go as big as your budget will allow on shop space. Not that you NEED a big shop it's just a nice luxury to have! You have a good start with your dewalt kit! I would look at YouTube for making jigs for your circular saw so you can make straight cuts and break down sheet goods with that! I would also invest into different blades for your jigsaw! You can make nice curve cuts with that and nice cross cuts too. If you have the space I would stay away from contractor table saws and go with a hybrid style table saw with a mobile base. Hybrid table saws are a nice mix of contractor and cabinet saws and IMO work great in small shops it's the best of both worlds small enough floor space foot print and big enough table that's just my opinion. For hand tools I would get you a set of marples chisels they are a good knock around chisel and will get the job done for about 25 dollars. You will definitely want some planes Stanley Bailey planes are a pretty good low budget plane that actually work very well. I would also get a nice dovetail saw check your local woodcraft/rockler they usually have good deals on hand saws and they can steer you in the right direction! Wouldn't hurt to have a nice Japanese saw! I would get a double edge saw and something you can use for flush cutting dowels and things! I know you said your CL wasn't very good for tools in your area I would still continue to check it once a day as you can always find great deals on there!! Just my two cents check wood magazine idea shop it's a pretty awesome article and something I wish I seen before I got all my tools! Good luck and keep us posted!!

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Spend your budget on the tablesaw. With jigs, you can do a lot with it, including edge jointing. There are used hand planes that can be had pretty inexpensively. I actually have a Record block plane that was about $30 new (years ago) that, once tuned & sharpened, is a good plane.

Learning to use hand planes to joint & plane is well worth the effort, because even after you have a jointer & planer, there's lots of times where it's quicker to just grab a plane to do the job.

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Just now, Eric. said:

You may have liked it but you were missing out on about 90% of what a router is capable of doing.  The good news is...you only need one plunge router. :)

Plunge router only, well since Im starting over with most of my tool collection, I will make sure that my router is plunge.

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2 minutes ago, drzaius said:

When I bought my first router, by dumb luck I bought a kit with both bases & soon learned the truth of this.

I enjoy having both bases for my Bosch.  I prefer the fixed base for work with my DT jigs but or just an edge treatment, most everything else I use the plunge.

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I have fixed-base routers dedicated to the router table, DT jig, a roundover and a chamfer.  The plunge routers get used for all joinery and inlay tasks.  A plunge router is an incredibly versatile machine.  A fixed-base router doesn't do a whole lot more than profiles.

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9 minutes ago, drzaius said:

My fixed base mostly just sits in the router table.

 

2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I have fixed-base routers dedicated to the router table, DT jig, a roundover and a chamfer.  The plunge routers get used for all joinery and inlay tasks.  A plunge router is an incredibly versatile machine.  A fixed-base router doesn't do a whole lot more than profiles.

Agreed..  If you could only have one tho, it should be the plunge.  Eric's point is spot on.

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1 hour ago, Eric. said:

If you're only gonna have one router, you MUST buy a plunge router.  Otherwise find another hobby because you ain't doin' this one right.  I think brand isn't that important as long as you buy from one of the big names like Dewalt, Makita, Porter Cable, etc.  Try to buy from real tool dealers online and not from the box stores.  They don't sell the same quality tools, even though they look identical and the model numbers are almost identical.  They put cheap parts in the box store tools because most homeowners who buy them don't know the difference and never use them enough to find out there is a difference.

Hey Eric, 

Dont take this wrong but where did your information come from on the box store tools being made of cheap parts? Just curious not being a jerk.

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2 minutes ago, Griff said:

Hey Eric, 

Dont take this wrong but where did your information come from on the box store tools being made of cheap parts? Just curious not being a jerk.

For example, Dewalt used to have (& may still) contactor grade & handyperson grade cordless tools that look very similar. Enormous difference in quality & price though.

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Just now, drzaius said:

For example, Dewalt used to have (& may still) contactor grade & handyperson grade cordless tools that look very similar. Enormous difference in quality & price though.

I always thought that different brands targeted a different audience like black and decker was more for homeowners which quality is poor and tools are cheap and brands like dewalt and Bosch were more for contractors never knew dewalt had different quality of tools under same brand name. Isn't dewalt Bosch black and decker and porter cable all owned by black and decker? I thought they did that so they could target different audience with different price points? I also assumed porter cable was a step above home owner grade and one below contractor quality? I maybe wrong!? 

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1 hour ago, Talimore said:

Can anyone give advice as to what I should look for when buying the following:

Planer
Table Saw
Jointer

Are there specific things I should look for when looking at the second hand market or even the first hand market? Thanks in advance.

 

I have a porter cable jointer that I purchased from lowes it's a bench top model I purchased it for under 200 dollars it's a 6" jointer not sure how long the bed is but I haven't had any issues with it and it would fit and work well in a small shop! Not the best jointer on the market I know but does a good job and will help you get going and stay on budget

3 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I originally heard about it a number of years ago from a Bosch representative who was a friend of my dad's.  It was one of those "don't tell anyone this, but" kind of deals.  Since then it has become fairly common knowledge.  Home Depot and Lowes will place an order with Dewalt for fifty million units of model #X...but the terms of the deal will be "slap some cheap parts in there and cut our costs."  They change the model number just slightly, usually by adding or subtracting a single digit, and most consumers are none the wiser.

Online tool dealers like ACME, Ace, CPO, etc carry the original version for about the same price, sometimes even less.  They sell more to professionals who know the difference and put their tools to the test, so they couldn't get away with it.

Thanks for information! I have seen a lot of decently priced tools on cpo! I've never heard of the other sites as I'm fairly new to the game. Do you have links to the sites?

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40 minutes ago, Eric. said:

You may have liked it but you were missing out on about 90% of what a router is capable of doing.  The good news is...you only need one plunge router. :)

I am with Eric on this.  My range of "do-ables" opened right up once I got a plunge.  The great thing is that today you can get a combo kit that is of equal quality to a lot of the dedicated function units.  Bit, if I could only have one it would be a variable speed plunge.

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8 minutes ago, Griff said:

Thanks for information! I have seen a lot of decently priced tools on cpo! I've never heard of the other sites as I'm fairly new to the game. Do you have links to the sites?

http://www.acmetools.com/

http://www.acetoolonline.com/

And as far as I know, Amazon also only carries legitimate tools.

Keep in mind that this problem isn't a problem with every tool out there, only select models.  Sometimes the box stores will carry exactly the same version as the tool dealers.  You just have to do your research and check the model numbers closely.

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