New Woodworker needing some Advice please


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Myself, if I was going cheap, I'd go used. Any new tools in that price range just are not going to be worth having.

(slowly packs up his stuff and goes home)

Hello Everyone! Sorry it took me so long to reply but I had to take a few months of business travel and the winter came. Now I'm back in my shop with a vengeance! Here are some photos (these are

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1 hour ago, Eric. said:

I originally heard about it a number of years ago from a Bosch representative who was a friend of my dad's.  It was one of those "don't tell anyone this, but" kind of deals.  Since then it has become fairly common knowledge.  Home Depot and Lowes will place an order with Dewalt for fifty million units of model #X...but the terms of the deal will be "slap some cheap parts in there and cut our costs."  They change the model number just slightly, usually by adding or subtracting a single digit, and most consumers are none the wiser.

No disrespect intended... I'm a n00b in the woodworking world, after all...

I've done these model number comparisons from "the good tool companies" (ACME, CPO, etc) before and haven't seen any difference other than the big box stores tend to not carry certain models/skus. The ones they do carry match exactly, however. I also have a hard time believing this notion that gets passed around a lot.

  1. From a manufacturing/inventory/logistics perspective, creating a special line, one model number off, just for big box stores is a logistical nightmare and a huge monetary liability to the manufacturer.
  2. What company would want to tarnish their reputation by attempting something like this? Companies like Bosch have their 'consumer grade' brands... like Skil... that are cheaper and lower quality for the 'casual user'. 
  3. I've never seen anything official, it's all hearsay.

Bottom line for me, if you are willing to do your research up front before buying a tool, including how said retailer/outlet handles warranty on the products they sell, it shouldn't matter where you buy it from. When you go to buy it, make sure you are getting the same model/sku number.

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Nope, not hearsay. All makers make ranges in some tools. Most box stores carry limited options. Buy with awareness. There is nothing quite like buying a 3 amp motor when you payed a 5 amp price. It is not about tarnishing a reputation. You still got a quality tool. You just didn't get what you hoped for. Yes, you can go online and find that tool? So what?  This is a lot like buying the "same" truck in V6, V8, or deisel. It is only bad if you didn't get what you really wanted. The research comment is dead on. 

PS I have seen this as a tool purchaser through ten years of killing tools in the trades. It was always wise to find a rep rather than running straight to a box store. That does not mean box stores cannot get what you want, but they may not stock it. 

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10 minutes ago, MisterDrow said:
  1. What company would want to tarnish their reputation by attempting something like this? Companies like Bosch have their 'consumer grade' brands... like Skil... that are cheaper and lower quality for the 'casual user'. 

Companies that care more about making money than protecting their reputation.  Which is most of them.  They assume (correctly) that the vast majority of box store consumers are homeowners who will use a tool very lightly and won't know the difference.  It's a calculated risk.

It's not a logistical nightmare for them...they are essentially creating a new line of tool and they manufacture them the same way they manufacture everything else...en masse.  But they're getting an enormous payout from an enormous retailer so it's well worth the logistical challenges that go into it.

You don't have to believe that this goes on, but I assure you it does.  I've not only heard about it from the horse's mouth (why would a Bosch salesman make that up?) but I've experienced it personally several times when looking at tools at BORG.  I'll write down the model number and research it when I get home, and can't find an identical match anywhere...just a similar model with slight changes to the model number and the components.

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@C Shaffer & @Eric. Thanks for the responses there. I'm not necessarily doubting that it happens... just have a hard time wrapping my head around it being so prevalent. I've heard the same about TVs at Walmart. Maybe I'm just in denial.

That being said, I will take you at your word that CPO, ACME, etc are good sources and will look there for tools I order online in the future. What about Woodcraft? Granted most of the lines they carry are out of my price range at the moment, but they focus very heavily on quality stuff, too. Also, Amazon?  Anyone know the story there?

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It happens in most industries.  We were mattress shopping a month ago and we ran into a similar deal.  Simmons manufactured a model of Beautyrest mattress for one specific (enormous) retail chain.  They ordered X-hundred thousand of them, the manufacturer cuts a couple corners, and the retailer sells them as a "comparable model" to the original.  Naive consumers take the bait.  Same story on the carpet I was looking at last week.  Happens all the time.

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2 hours ago, Eric. said:

http://www.acmetools.com/

http://www.acetoolonline.com/

And as far as I know, Amazon also only carries legitimate tools.

Keep in mind that this problem isn't a problem with every tool out there, only select models.  Sometimes the box stores will carry exactly the same version as the tool dealers.  You just have to do your research and check the model numbers closely.

Thanks Eric for your help!

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2 hours ago, Talimore said:

Any other thoughts on the Ridgid 4512?

No experience with it myself, but that model, along with it's clones sold under other brands has had a long ugly history of alignment problems. Reportedly the blade alignment can change as it is raised & lowered. The problem has been reported as fixed by said manufacturers a couple of times, yet complaints still occasionally surface. Seems like it's fixed on most of them.

Those who have one that stays aligned seem to like them a lot.

The bottom line is that if you get one, you need to thoroughly check it right away & return it if needed.

Before getting my SawStop, I had a Jet contractor saw for about 15 years & it performed very well. I dialed it in when it was new & it never went out of adjustment one bit. Of course, it had the usual contractor saw disadvantages; noisy, vibration, poor dust collection, & underpowered when ripping thick hardwood.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all,

Long time no post. Shed is here and I've had 5 electricians come give me quotes on getting some power run to this thing. Were going to make a choice this weekend on who to go with and get that scheduled. I think its going to run me another 1600 for the power but at least it will be done right and be inspected and to code. Below are some brief pictures before I left work today of the shed.

You can see a little green on the wood in the first picture. This is because its green lumber and not kiln-dried. I'm going to wash it all down with some bleach/water/cleaner mixture and it should get rid of any of that for good.

Also, I purchased the Rigid tablesaw using my military discount and got 10% off. Not to bad.

 

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Questions, the Algie (I think thats what it is) that's inside on some of the boards. After I clean it off with some Bleach and water I should be fine to insulate and cover the walls with OBS right? It shouldnt regrow on me, should it? I'm afraid to cover the walls and insulate if I have to tear it down in a year to repeat the process.

Anyone have to deal with this before?

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That will depend on how dry it stays.  If water can find it's way in there, things will grow.  If it stays dry, you ought to be fine.  If it is just moisture from the wood, I would leave it open to dry for a couple of months before I insulated (going to take a while to do the electrical first any way).   Some sort of house wrap under the exterior finished walls would have helped.  The building looks nice though.

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5 hours ago, Talimore said:

I purchased the Rigid tablesaw using my military discount and got 10% off. Not to bad.

I have the same saw and I've been pretty happy with it. Mine does not appear to have any alignment issues while raising and lowering the blade, but I did need to square the blade to the fence when it arrived. I'm not a fan of the thin metal wings though, they are mostly useless for large/heavy stuff. However, in that price range, I couldn't find anything comparable with cast iron wings. I replaced one with an Incra router table and that makes a big difference. I never used the factory fence & rails, I set it up with an Incra system, which I love. Coincidentally, if you happen to break your fence or rails and need replacements, I have spare parts!

-E

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I found that I could buy my "first" _________________(fill in the power tool of your choice) cheap on Craigs list to allow me to do some wood working and then when upgrade time came I could resell it for about what I paid.  Kinda like free rental while you save for the "dream tool".  I did this with a scroll saw, and planer wool also work for a starter table saw.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello Everyone,

Sorry for the late reply but I was on vacation for 2 weeks, Tokyo is awesome :D. I got the electrician in the shed and its' all wired up, inspected and good to go!

I had one question though, since this is an Amish built shed and it's non-kiln dried wood, there is some green growth around the walls. I tried scrubbing it with a bleach/water mixture but it only got rid of a little and most of it remains. Can you advise a good way to get rid of it? Also, I will submit some photos soon of the shed all wired up.

As always, thanks in advance.

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To me it looks like it could be the blue stain from the mountain beetle that kills pine trees. I don't know where you live but this bug infestation seems to be in the Colorado & Wyoming area.. I found this website that explains what it is and how to tell.

http://www.southernpine.com/using-southern-pine/blue-stain-faqs/

 

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29 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

To me it looks like it could be the blue stain from the mountain beetle that kills pine trees. I don't know where you live but this bug infestation seems to be in the Colorado & Wyoming area.. I found this website that explains what it is and how to tell.

http://www.southernpine.com/using-southern-pine/blue-stain-faqs/

 

Hello,

Thanks for the reply. I really hope this is the case because, as the site you linked pointed out, it doesn't appear to be affecting the strength of the lumber. The floor is made of the same lumber and I have several hundred pounds of equipment on it without it bending, cracking or breaking. I live in the western New York area and the Amish Community I had construct this lives near Erie PA.

Do I need to treat it with anything or can I just leave it alone?

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That looks more like mold or mildew to me. I know there are mildewcide's that you can add to paint. Do you plan to insulate and close up the walls? Are you going to paint or stain the exterior ? If you are leaving the walls open it would be easy to see if it spreads. If I was insulating and enclosing the walls I would check into some sort of test & treatment. The blue stain link said if it will scrub off the surface it isn't blue stain. 

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4 minutes ago, wdwerker said:

That looks more like mold or mildew to me. I know there are mildewcide's that you can add to paint. Do you plan to insulate and close up the walls? Are you going to paint or stain the exterior ? If you are leaving the walls open it would be easy to see if it spreads. If I was insulating and enclosing the walls I would check into some sort of test & treatment. The blue stain link said if it will scrub off the surface it isn't blue stain. 

The outside is stained the inside I plan on closing and insulating. I haven't seen any spread in the month that I had it but that's only one month. In regards to scrubbing, my wife and I scrubbed the entire thing down with hard brushes and bleach, it defiantly isn't mold. I have dealt with Mold before, had some in my porch after adding windows to it, and have scrubbed that away. This will not scrub away. I even scrubbed several sections again after the first time to see if a second session of hard scrubbing did anything and it also had no affect.

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On September 30, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Mike. said:

Just reading this now, but I can confirm that custom skus/specs are most definitely a thing.  Next time you are at home depot, pull out your smart phone and do the amazon bar code scan thing.  Scan enough items, and you will find some that amazon either doesn't carry it or it is only sold by a third-party seller (who probably bought a pallet load on sale from HD).  They do this 1) so people can't price compare and 2) so they can sell crappy stuff at a better margin.

It may seem like a logistical nightmare, but you have to realize that Home Depot and Lowes account for 27% of Stanley Black and Decker's tool revenue (pg 93 of the attached).  They sold $7bln of tools in 2015, $1.9 to HD and Lowes alone.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MzI2OTA5fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1&cb=635930604050226592

 

black and decker owns dewalt as well, do they not?

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  • 7 months later...

That's a great start!  That roof is just low enough to be made into a pretty nifty storage space too.

My question is, and I pose this to the community as a whole as I truly do not know, how stable are those floorboards?  Do they have any give in them?  Would it be worth laying done a 'subfloor' to strengthen it up some?   I can imagine in 5-10 years they might get a bit of wobble in them, and that could be downright annoying.   And it could add some insulation to the room too. 

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