mds2

upgrading planes - advice please - UPDATE Page 3.

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I got a nice little bonus from my work and I have decided to treat myself and buy some NEW planes!  Every plane I own I've bought used at flea markets, thrift stores, etc and restored to usable.  

Here are my questions so far:

I plan on buying a low angle jack plane, I just don't know if I want a low angle rabbeting jack plane or not.  Can I use a rabbeting jack for normal jack plane work? 

L-N or Veritas?

Or do I get a regular low angle jack plane and a rabbeting block plane? 

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These questions are asked frequently and will get the usual replies.  The built in search engine is not bad but, if you are not getting what you want, I got a load of good data using:

low angle jack site:www.woodtalkonline.com/

in my browser.

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9 minutes ago, mds2 said:

Or do I get a regular low angle jack plane and a rabbeting block plane? 

That's the way I'd go..  I don't think LV makes a rabbeting block plane (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so, that would be a LN order - My OCD would tell me I'm ordering the LAJ from LN too.. ;)

Must be a nice bonus!

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Just now, TIODS said:

That's the way I'd go..  I don't think LV makes a rabbeting block plane (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so, that would be a LN order - My OCD would tell me I'm ordering the LAJ from LN too.. ;)

Must be a nice bonus!

This is kind of the way I am leaning.   Kinda bummed Veritas doesnt make a rabbeting block plane, I read about how much people love their regular block planes all the time.

If I remember the LN and LV LA jacks are roughly the same price.  Is one really any better than the other?

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1 minute ago, mds2 said:

This is kind of the way I am leaning.   Kinda bummed Veritas doesnt make a rabbeting block plane, I read about how much people love their regular block planes all the time.

If I remember the LN and LV LA jacks are roughly the same price.  Is one really any better than the other?

Loaded question depending on who you're talking to and were their loyalties lie ;)

Personally, I think they both make great planes and either would be welcome in my shop!

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All I can add is my router plane, low angle jack plane and smoother are all Lee Valley and like Kev said Lee Valley does not make a rabbeting block plane so I went to LN for that.  I had talked to a couple of people here and the Lee Valley gets good reviews and I was trying to get the most out of my budget.  Lee Valley is just a touch cheaper.

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I like my Lee Valley LAJ, but it is a *big* plane, and very heavy. If you like lighter planes, I think the LN is a bit shorter and lighter casting. Both are excellent.

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I'd actually reconsider buying the LAJ at all unless you don't plan to buy any other planes in the future or you want it primarily for shooting miters.  The stronger and more specific your plane collection becomes, the more irrelevant the LAJ becomes.

Where is your collection lacking and what specifically do you want out of a new plane?  Smoothing?  Jointing?  Fitting parts?

Food for thought...the LAJ is good at a lot of things but great at nothing.  If I didn't have a #4 and a standard angle block plane that I absolutely loved, those would be my priority purchases.

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11 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I'd actually reconsider buying the LAJ at all unless you don't plan to buy any other planes in the future or you want it primarily for shooting miters.  The stronger and more specific your plane collection becomes, the more irrelevant the LAJ becomes.

Where is your collection lacking and what specifically do you want out of a new plane?  Smoothing?  Jointing?  Fitting parts?

Food for thought...the LAJ is good at a lot of things but great at nothing.  If I didn't have a #4 and a standard angle block plane that I absolutely loved, those would be my priority purchases.

I have a fairly complete set of planes. A couple different jack planes, one smoother(considering upgrading this as well), a standard block plane, a couple router planes, a fore plane.  No jointer plane, I dont have the need and the fore plane gets the job done.  They are all just old.     I think a LA jack would fit pretty nicely, since I don't have any low angle planes.   Rabbeting block plane would be for joinery, primarily. 

32 minutes ago, BonPacific said:

I like my Lee Valley LAJ, but it is a *big* plane, and very heavy. If you like lighter planes, I think the LN is a bit shorter and lighter casting. Both are excellent.

My preference would be for something heavier.  Thanks for the info!

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A well tuned #4 is a WAY more important plane in my shop.  My LAJ gets used not very much.  In fact when I eventually buy a dedicated shooter I would be inclined to sell the LAJ.  Unfortunately it occupies a space in my tool cabinet so I wouldn't be able to get rid of it.  But it's just gonna sit there for the most part until I need to smooth some long end grain bevels or something.

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Except for the rabetting block plane, the choice between LN and LV comes down to price I think.  They're both excellent.  I just bought a LN LAJ a couple months ago, I got a deal in EBay, buying it new for $50 less than the LV.  I had already ordered the LV and had to cancel the order.

Eric is right, as usual, but if you don't have an array of other quality planes, the LAJ can fill a lot of needs for a long time, especially when you add in few different beveled blades.

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I would look at a low angle smoother before a low angle jack if you already have a decent selection of planes. I only pull mine out for dealing with figured wood, since I have a high-angle blade for the LAJ.

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1 hour ago, mds2 said:

This is kind of the way I am leaning.   Kinda bummed Veritas doesnt make a rabbeting block plane, I read about how much people love their regular block planes all the time.

If I remember the LN and LV LA jacks are roughly the same price.  Is one really any better than the other?

Hmmm . . .

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=65373&cat=1,41182,41192&ap=1

The Lie Nielsen isn't skewed and would be more useful if rabbeting is rally what you're after.  When I think about choosing planes I remember a time that a younger version of me was standing in front of a large display case full of router bits trying to decide.

Not to make light of a choice that is not inexpensive but, I probably stood there for 20 minutes when an old-timer finally took pity on me and called out "this won't be the last or the only one you'll ever get".

Rust-hunt tools can be very good users.  Think about which one of those you use the most (or wish was better the most) and let that help guide your selection.  I can say that a hand plane is less capable of being a one-size-fits-all than many other tools so don't try to make it so useful that you get something other than what you really want.

I have LV block planes but, seem to reach for their apron plane most often.  LN's No. 102 is similar if you prefer their stuff.

 

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The problem with rabbeting planes is that you cannot adjust the opening of the mouth. At least for me, being able to close the mouth is something I really need on LA Jack plane, because sometimes I just need to use it as a smoother.

I have a LN skew block plane and I found it to be very useful for rabbets. I'm not sure if I need a bigger plane for that task, haven't decided it yet. This is my workflow when rabbeting: start with the skew block plane and make about half the depth of rabbet, then switch to my router plane until I reach the desired depth, and finally end the job with a shoulder plane.

Now when I'm rabbeting with the grain (is there a word for that?), I just use my medium shoulder plane from start to finish.

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I am with Eric on this. The LAJ that I have now sees limited use. I would go with a smoother. I like the size of the No. 3, that's what I use. Don't rule out a No.7 either.

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^^2 Good question. How many guys use a full size plane for rabbeting etc.

James and Eric, so many guys have gone low angle almost exclusively for me to think this is not another one of those personal preference issues. 

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Ok this is what I'm thinking: 

Veritas low angle jack and veritas right hand rabbeting block plane.  

 

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14 minutes ago, mds2 said:

Ok this is what I'm thinking: 

Veritas low angle jack and veritas right hand rabbeting block plane.  

 

I think you should consider a Veritas Skew Rabbet Plane and a Veritas Smoothing Plane (if you are set on staying going with Veritas). These two planes will serve you much better than LAJ and a rabbeting block plane. 

If you are truly upgrading your planes, then upgrade the capability of your plane kit not just the brands! The Veritas LAJ is not going to do anything that your other Jack Planes cannot do. I use my LAJ primarily for shooting and for heavy stock removal before I switch to my Jointer Plane. Since you already have a smoother consider adding another joinery plane, like a plow plane.

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I have the LN LAJ, because I prefer low angle planes. (I also have the low angle smoother and jointer) It is a fine plane, and you'll have no issues. Just because it isn't a one trick pony doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in your shop. It really is a preference.

I don't like regular hand planes = preference. I also prefer LN planes. Some call it OCD, I say I just know what I like. Oh well. 

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36 minutes ago, C Shaffer said:

Wait, is he hiding or does he not like BCTW?

Bench planes were in scope of the discussion. Out of the BCTW planes I have, they are far superior and worth every single penny. No regrets at all on those. I haven't used any BCTW bench planes yet. 

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8 hours ago, mds2 said:

I got a nice little bonus from my work and I have decided to treat myself and buy some NEW planes!  Every plane I own I've bought used at flea markets, thrift stores, etc and restored to usable.  

Here are my questions so far:

I plan on buying a low angle jack plane, I just don't know if I want a low angle rabbeting jack plane or not.  Can I use a rabbeting jack for normal jack plane work? 

L-N or Veritas?

Or do I get a regular low angle jack plane and a rabbeting block plane? 

The rabbeting jack is the plane to own IF you do not have other planes. Or you are into timber framing. I tend to othewise avoid Swiss Army Knives. Similarly, the rabbet block plane, which I also own, gets used once each year. A standard block plane from LN or LV would serve you far better.

Get planes that you are going to use 90% of the time. My choice (disregarding cost, as I do not know your budget) would be a #4 smoother and a #7 jointer from Veritas' Custom Plane range. With the PM-V11 steel. I use these all the time. If you have mastered, or are willing to master, the chipbreaker, then get low angle frogs. My #4 is 42 degrees and the #7 is 40 degrees. The advantage of the low angle on the jointer means that it handles interlocked face grain and end grain equally well - one setting for jointing and shooting.

Regards from Perth

Derek

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8 hours ago, Eric. said:

the LAJ is good at a lot of things but great at nothing.  

I'll again disagree like we do. 

Eric: don't waste your money. 

Me: great value if you don't want ten planes 

Eric: shut up,  I'm right

Me:  remove glove and challenge Eric to a duel

Eric: spikes my amazon access

 

You may see the previous ten times for the riveting conclusion to this discussion. 

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Just now, Brendon_t said:

 

Me: great value if you don't want ten planes

I totally agree with this part.  And I'll remind you that I own one.  I'm just saying that the LAJ makes the most sense for people who have a very limited plane collection and intend to keep it that way.

Sorry again for expressing an opinion.  I'm slowly learning that forums are supposed to be all about the herd and not the individual.  I'll try to stay within the lines.

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