Jim DaddyO

Unplanable wood?

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I've got an old Stanley #12 scraper plane. I cleaned it up and sharpened the blade. It looks great on the shelf and I've used it 5 or 6 times in the last 25 years. But when you need it it does the job quite well !

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Thanks for all the input guys.  Tomorrow I am going to go at it with the card scraper.  As for the dents, I will steam out as much as I can, and see what happens before I make up my mind.  I will probably put in some sort of patch with some walnut.  Might as well go with it at this point.  

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After seeing the pics, I agree with Eric, that top looks like it needs to be resurfaced.  The dents might steam out, but that tear out is pretty deep.  You'll be at it for days with a card scraper.  Rather than using hand planes to resurface it, do you have a router?  You could make a router sled to resurface it and then you wouldn't have to worry about tear out.  Finish it off with some sanding or the card scraper and voila, you're back in business.  

I think the walnut patch wouldn't look right, but that's just my opinion.  

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18 hours ago, Jim DaddyO said:

So, I am working on this ash slab for a coffee table.  I am stripping it down yet again to refinish it, but that is a whole other story.

Anyway, I have my #4 fresh off the strop, I have the cap iron really close and the mouth close too.  I have the depth of cut set so fine I am barely taking dust, just starting to move it down after stropping.  I stop adjusting and start giving it a few strokes to see if I am happy there, and it is doing pretty well, working easy and just barely taking a cut.  I get to a part where the grain reverses, which is all over, it is ash.  A grain end catches and a big strip tears our.  I am dumbfounded, and in shock, I stand up with my jaw hanging open and the plane drops from my hand, of course landing on the top and putting another big dent in it.  

 

Now what?  I am blaming myself for something I did wrong.  Like really beating myself up on this.  I may have just ruined a 24" x 42" x almost 2" thick piece of slab ash that I have about a month of work into.  I have no clue what I did or how I am going to fix it......perhaps a couple of bow tie inlays (a Dutchman?).  I am seriously freaked out here.

The problem is that you have the mouth closed. Open the mouth as wide as possible! Keep the chipbreaker closed up. Try again, and report on your findings :)

Just remember it is possible to close up the chipbreaker too much. The plane will stutter and the shavings will concertina. If so, pull it back a smidgeon.

Sanders!!! <shaking head> :(

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Thanks to all. 

Not enough room to quote all the excellent suggestions.  I think I have a few days work ahead of me no matter what.  I will be trying more than one of the suggested fixes I imagine.  Start with the least intrusive and go from there I suppose.

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If you try a repair, don't Dutch it. Find an inlay or other tasteful concept. A one corner decorative inlay can work. (Not sure exactly where the tearout is. 

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18 hours ago, Eric. said:

Wide belt is beyond the scope of most reasonable hobby shops.  But hey, if you're rich and your shop is in an aircraft hangar, go for it.  Drum sander is right in the wheelhouse for the serious hobbyist.

Yeah. I wasn't being serious. I have seen a few go for low prices on those heavy machinery auction sites. I am lucky and get to use my buddies. It wouldn't fit well in my 2 car garage shop. 

I really just wanted to say game overer. 

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6 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Yeah. I wasn't being serious. I have seen a few go for low prices on those heavy machinery auction sites. I am lucky and get to use my buddies. It wouldn't fit well in my 2 car garage shop. 

I really just wanted to say game overer. 

Fair enough.  Overer is fun to say and I'd like to have a Trip Euro Kit shop too.  Not gonna happen in this life I fear.

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20 hours ago, Jim DaddyO said:

Thanks for all the input guys.  Tomorrow I am going to go at it with the card scraper.  As for the dents, I will steam out as much as I can, and see what happens before I make up my mind.  I will probably put in some sort of patch with some walnut.  Might as well go with it at this point.  

Jim, I am going to repeat .... the reason you achieved only dust with your plane was because the mouth was closed up. One can have either the chipbreaker closed up or the mouth closed up, but not both. Closing the chipbreaker and closing the mouth means that the shaving cannot get through, hence you get dust.

Now you will not learn anything from this experience unless you go back to the very start and re-do the work. It is the same if you choose to use a longer Stanley plane. 

With regard to all the other responses here, no one seems to have a clue about using a chipbreaker, or they would have picked up on the way you set up your plane. Hence the suggestions of sanding or scrapers. A belt sander would work, but why would you?! And a scraper is fine for finishing, but not for removing much material. Try your plane again.

Regards from Perth

Derek

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No condescension intended, and I apologise if they came through. Just that the issue of planing - which were the initial question - was ignored by all, and non-planing alternatives offered. That is not addressing the problem with planning. I am not forcing Jim to plane, but I do believe he will learn more by trying again, and not by avoiding the situation. Strategies were given to address the planing issue.

If there was tearout, then the chipbreaker was not used optimally (not close enough to prevent tearout). Or the chipbreaker was too close (that creates a rough cut). Either way, you cannot close up the mouth - that will lead to dust

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Fair point and apologies if I misread yours Derek. 

Jim, Derek is one of the more experienced here. I was judging tone but not critiquing the comments. I assume by tight mouth, that you will need to move a frog in order to open the mouth. Just in case that is not obvious to you. I would just caution that if you go to plane that top, practice first. I have made the mistake of not making my corrections before making a top worse. 

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1 hour ago, derekcohen said:

No condescension intended, and I apologise if they came through. Just that the issue of planing - which were the initial question - was ignored by all, and non-planing alternatives offered. That is not addressing the problem with planning. I am not forcing Jim to plane, but I do believe he will learn more by trying again, and not by avoiding the situation. Strategies were given to address the planing issue.

If there was tearout, then the chipbreaker was not used optimally (not close enough to prevent tearout). Or the chipbreaker was too close (that creates a rough cut). Either way, you cannot close up the mouth - that will lead to dust

Regards from Perth

Derek

I understood, and did not take any offence at all.  I am retaining the information.  I did use the expression about just getting dust as to explain how light of I cut I had set.  When I put my iron in the plane, I back it off and then just sneak up on the adjustment.  Advancing the blade is always preferable to retracting it due to the lash in the mechanism.  My #4 is from 1936 I think, there is a bit of wear in there.

As for the mouth of the plane, I guess I should have acknowledged getting that advise and I will put it to good use .  I do set the chip breaker (cap iron) extremely close on smoothing planes (I use high magnification aids, remember Marc's "sexy glasses"?).  One of my mistakes was closing the mouth up too much.  Thanks for setting me straight on that.  Funny thing is, I had just closed it for this operation, great time to experiment eh? (sarcasm at my expense).

So yeah, keep firing away at suggestions, I am not bothered by the way it is written or worded (unless it becomes a personal attack kind of thing).  I am a big boy and can decipher the information without the need for professional therapy afterwards.  I just may try the #7 or #6 to get it down a bit to start.  Take a light pass to make sure it will go OK.  I have still been avoiding it until my mind is more settled. Rushing now is obviously counter productive.   

Thanks again.

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1 hour ago, drzaius said:

For removing lots of material, I've had good results with planing across the grain. Then when almost enough material has been removed, switch to the sander if tearout is a problem.

I do not have good hand plane skills though, so As Derek suggests, I should get more practice.

I may not have to remove that much material.  I went and gave it a look again today.  Still letting the situation sit with me a while.  I gave the shop a good clean up, organised everything, moved things around and put things away.  Getting it into my mind that I just have to do a re-set on the situation, take a big breath and going on.  The clean up helps with getting that mind set.  I don't like a mess.

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On 26/10/2016 at 9:47 AM, derekcohen said:

The problem is that you have the mouth closed. Open the mouth as wide as possible! Keep the chipbreaker closed up. Try again, and report on your findings :)

Just remember it is possible to close up the chipbreaker too much. The plane will stutter and the shavings will concertina. If so, pull it back a smidgeon.

Sanders!!! <shaking head> :(

Regards from Perth

Derek

Reporting back as requested.

Derek, you have just debunked the myth, at least for me, that closing up the mouth reduces tear out.  I opened the mouth up as you suggested, re sharpened the blade, set the cap iron at about 1/64", took very thin shavings, and I am making some headway on it.  I am taking very light cuts, so this is going to take a while, but I am heading in the right direction.  I may not get it completely out, but close enough for the card scraper.  The grain still fights me in areas, but skewing the plane a bit seems to help.  I set the #7 just about the same and traversed the wood a few times to help level it out a bit.  I was getting a bit tired so I packed it in for a while.  I am going to go really slow on this.

Thanks for your input, it is very much appreciated.

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Another bit of an update.  I steamed the big dents.  They didn't come completely out, but close enough that I could drop a little CA glue in them and sand and get them level.  Not perfect, but not so conspicuous either.  There are natural blemishes that are about the same looking.  I am resorting to the ROS and 80 grit and I am sure the top will be OK now.  Lots of every ones favourite pastime, sanding, to go.

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Glad to hear that you got it straitened out. I thought when you first mentioned tear out that it was quite minimal, when i saw the picture i understood the dents a lot better.

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2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Looks like it cleaned up nice.

Did you know someone left their car tires in your shop? :D

Good eyes....I have the snow tires on the car now, I have to clean up the mags before they go into the storage shed yet.  The jobs just keep piling up.

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