Pwk5017

HVLP beginnings

Recommended Posts

Found a used Fuji MM4 for $200 with a spare gun and some extra air caps and needles, so i jumped on it. En route to Pittsburgh via UPS as we speak and should be here tomorrow. I browsed youtube last night for videos as well as searching the forums here, but didnt turn up much info on selecting needles, actual spraying technique etc. A couple reviews of fuji units, but Marc's is the only thing i could see on actual spraying. I know there has to be a resource for beginner sprayers, but im failing to find it. I have a 9' bar top that would be awesome to spray, but im nervous to jump into spraying on a paying job. The whole point of the purchase is to spray CV finishes better and faster than brushing waterlox over large surfaces. From what i have read, i can easily get 2-3 coats of CV finish in a day and a half versus a week for 5 coats of waterlox. Oh, and watching Marc spray his morris chairs looked wayyyy easier than me wiping finish on the adirondack chairs i made earlier this year. 

 

Not related to the "how to" information i started the thread for, but is spraying clear finishes stupid easy to achieve perfection or surprisingly difficult? I spent 45 mins watching youtube videos of guys spraying for 30 seconds and then the final product looking incredible. Helps for me to curb expectations if the reality is it is surprisingly difficult to spray well. 

 

Patrick

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needle size is dependent on the viscosity of what you're spraying.  Fuji has a pretty good chart on which tip for which viscosity.

As for easy or difficult - Again, it depends on what you're shooting.  I'd suggest putting a small tip in the gun and spraying water on cardboard to get the hang of it.  It's really not that hard.  If you're shooting WB finishes, you'll probably be using the same tip that you did for the water and going for it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Long even strokes going past the work piece at each stroke and applying a very light coat and then letting the work piece dry pretty much covers it. After that its all just about experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For waterbornes and shellac I like to use the 1.0mm set. I have this book and DVD and it is great for beginners and is also a great reference down the road:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1600850928/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Spraying shellac and waterbornes is pretty easy to get great results with a little practice. It is awesome to be able to sand and spray every 90 minutes and end up with a virtually dust-free finish that won't stink the house up for 30 days. Here is a video of me spraying my cherry headboard.

BTW - I use the 3M PPS system which has some great benefits but a little pricey. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spraying well just doesn't happen. It's a skill learned by practice. DON'T LEARN ON A PAYING JOB, or you'll be sanding your ass off fixing dry spray and or orange peel. 

In the beginning, most folks apply finish way to thin for fear of runs. The trick is, apply the finish on the wood wet enough so it can flow out. 

Most finish companies have recommendations for what needle and nozzles work best for spraying their finishes. Visit their website and look for the tech data sheet. 

 

-Ace-

 

Oh yaa, learn to spray/understand spraying/eat breath spraying/spraying safety...before putting your toe in the CV water.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just picked up a new MM4 Platinum...not quite the same deal 😉 looking forward to using it this weekend.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, AceHoleInOne said:

Spraying well just doesn't happen. It's a skill learned by practice. DON'T LEARN ON A PAYING JOB, or you'll be sanding your ass off fixing dry spray and or orange peel. 

In the beginning, most folks apply finish way to thin for fear of runs. The trick is, apply the finish on the wood wet enough so it can flow out. 

Most finish companies have recommendations for what needle and nozzles work best for spraying their finishes. Visit their website and look for the tech data sheet. 

 

-Ace-

 

Oh yaa, learn to spray/understand spraying/eat breath spraying/spraying safety...before putting your toe in the CV water.

 

 

Great Scott! I had a bill pentz-esque moment last night while reading about CV. Sounds like its a one way ticket to cancerville. I dont know why i thought that was going to be a miracle finish with zero downsides. Cures in 20 mins? Wow, awesome! Tough as nails? Even better! Sure to cause cancer after exposure! Wait, what!?!?!? Sounds like everyone avoids spraying polys. Are waterbornes my only choice for tough finishes that are easy to spray and wont kill me?

 

This might sound daft as hell, but im going to ask it anyways. If you are finishing a large surface, can you spray upside down? Getting help to flip a 40-66" by 120" top is sometimes a pain that delays me. If I could get away with spraying the first few bottom coats without having to flip a piece would really make my life convenient. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No don't spray upside down. You could hand wipe/brush the finish upside down and spray the top. So it wouldn't matter how neat you have to be. you're only applying finish to stabilize the piece from the bottom.

Spraying on you back sucks and you will be wearing more finish on your body than you apply to the wood.  

CV or 2K finishes can be nasty and have short pot life. A good hard table top finish I like is from General Finishes, called Enduro-var. Tough as nails, expensive, easy to use gives the wood a slight amber tone. 

 

-Ace-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

This might sound daft as hell, but im going to ask it anyways. If you are finishing a large surface, can you spray upside down? 

That's one of the many benefits of the 3M PPS system :) Some of the other benefits are listed here:

http://www.fujispray.com/3m-pps-system/

What I like in addition to spraying at any angle is you don't have to strain finishes. easy cleanup, no air bubbles. and I reuse the liners about 5 times.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, estesbubba said:

and I reuse the liners about 5 times.

I hear guys doing this. I use the same system, they are made to be disposable and thrown away after use, hence, the easy clean up. In my dull mind, that would be like washing out a plastic sandwich bag, to re-use another day. If you're gonna wash the disposable plastic liners, use a cup, more bang for your buck. The PPS system is expensive however a convenience to me. I like tossing those spent raincoats in the trash, cleaning cups out suck. :P  

 -Ace-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you buy that system? I havent touched the package i purchased yet, but i think it has the T70 gun. Is this 3M system expensive? All I want to do is crouch under sawhorses and shoot at a 45° onto the bottom of the piece to keep the whole thing from cupping until i flip it once or twice for a proper bottom coat. Pretty much what Ace said, minus the face full of finish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, AceHoleInOne said:

I hear guys doing this. I use the same system, they are made to be disposable and thrown away after use, hence, the easy clean up. In my dull mind, that would be like washing out a plastic sandwich bag, to re-use another day. If you're gonna wash the disposable plastic liners, use a cup, more bang for your buck. The PPG system is expensive however a convenience to me. I like tossing those spent raincoats in the trash, cleaning cups out suck. :P  

 -Ace-

I'm sure you spray a lot more than I do, plus all I spray is shellac and waterbornes. When done spraying I just toss the liner and lid in a 5 gallon bucket of warm water, rinse good, and done. Now if I spray paint they go straight to the trash. 

3 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

How do you buy that system? I havent touched the package i purchased yet, but i think it has the T70 gun. Is this 3M system expensive? All I want to do is crouch under sawhorses and shoot at a 45° onto the bottom of the piece to keep the whole thing from cupping until i flip it once or twice for a proper bottom coat. Pretty much what Ace said, minus the face full of finish.

This is what I have for my Fuji XPC gun - double check your size needed.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020K5I28/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RI0GIG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ANXZ7W/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, estesbubba said:

I'm sure you spray a lot more than I do, plus all I spray is shellac and waterbornes. When done spraying I just toss the liner and lid in a 5 gallon bucket of warm water, rinse good, and done. Now if I spray paint they go straight to the trash. 

This is what I have for my Fuji XPC gun - double check your size needed.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0020K5I28/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RI0GIG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ANXZ7W/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Do you feel like you need the 28oz cup or could you get by with the mini cup (6oz?)?

Is there a kit to buy with all the different nozzles that a person would need to spray a variety of finishes?

What other accessories are considered must haves to be effective with hvlp?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Do you feel like you need the 28oz cup or could you get by with the mini cup (6oz?)?

Is there a kit to buy with all the different nozzles that a person would need to spray a variety of finishes?

What other accessories are considered must haves to be effective with hvlp?

 

No way I would use the 6 oz cup unless you want to fill it every 2 mins!

It depends on what you want to spray, but I use the 1.0mm set for waterbornes and shellac. I have also sprayed GF milk paint (acrylic) with the 1.8mm set. My Fuji XPC gun came with a 1.4mm set which is OK for waterbornes but I find the 1.0mm set to be better. The 1.4mm might be a little big for shellac which is pretty thin. 

If you want to get into HVLP, I would buy once and you'll probably be set for life if you take care of your gun. I have the Fuji Mini Mite 4 bottom feed and that is what I would recommend. I would also get the book & DVD I posted earlier in this thread. The 3M PPS is a luxury but once you use it a few times you won't want to go back. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I added this to my spray supplies.  You may not need this all the time, or ever but It is a small expense to have on hand if you start to spray and have a problem with a clog or something.  I paid $15 just a week ago now its $22.

Spray Gun Cleaning Kit

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6oz cup.......I have a compressed air gravity feed touch up gun with the small cup 1.0 cap and nozzle. USE IT A LOT. Great for spraying dye shellac and topcoats on small projects. Use it to work out colors and topcoats on test boards, etc. Touchup on dye and stained projects that needs repairs from finishing mistakes, YES THEY DO HAPPEN!

I would always go with the largest cup. It's nice to have the extra capacity on large jobs. And if you buy a gravity feed, the extra capacity is nice for the extra weight of the finish pushing the fluid through the gun makes it spray so much nicer.  

I mostly spray with a gravity feed Iwata LVLP compress air gun with a 1.4 needle and cap and handles everything I need to spray. Some of the thicker pigmented water based topcoats, probably should step up to something larger say 1.8 to 2.0 needle and cap. 

I'm a compressed air guy and can only speak to that.  :P

 

-Ace-

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.