Seth Clayton

Full shop Dust Control

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2 hours ago, Seth Clayton said:

What about the 1hp model from grizzly?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-HP-Dust-Collector/G8027?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com

I've seen this model as cheap as $175.

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That thing just doesn't have the balls to bother ducted in and with a 2hp hf unit that has been frankensteined a million ways,  I see that as a waste of money. 

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As long as we're comparing DC approaches, is there a quick way to measure the dust in the shop?  Something like fly paper that you put out?

I think I read somewhere about turning off the shop lights and looking at a flashlight beam.  Any thoughts?

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8 hours ago, Brendon_t said:

That thing just doesn't have the balls to bother ducted in and with a 2hp hf unit that has been frankensteined a million ways,  I see that as a waste of money. 

I think you may be drawing some false conclusions.  A HF 2HP model out of the box will embarrass just about any shop vac on the market.  (I am differentiating shop vac and dust extractors here.)  The most important difference is not the motor, but instead the impeller.  Most shop vacs are running tiny impellers, where a dust collector, like HF is running ~7"-8" (~2x-3x larger).   I can't remember the sizes, but the specifics aren't important, the proportionality is what counts.  

HP in a motor simply represents how much load you can put the motor under, you can gear RPMs to get the speed that is ideal.  This is important with large impeller, but not so much with small.  Don't get me wrong, HP is good, but you cannot compare a shop vac to a true DC, the math just doesn't work.  

A DC will serve you much better in the long run versus a shop vac.  A shop vac is designed for a short runs and small volumes at high CFM.  A DC is designed for long runs and greater volume more consistent CFMs.  You see the HF Frankenstein'd because folks (myself included) are trying to get higher end DC performance out of it, not because they are trying to keep up with shop vacs.  

 

Out of the box HF DC > Shop Vac for the use you are describing, plus you have the option to Frankenstein it down the road should you choose.  I did the shop vac thing in my first shop and was very disappointed.  

Dragging a 4" flex hose around your shop will be less expensive and much greater performance than piping 1.5" permanently.  4" permanent will be a great target to achieve someday, but I don't recommend spending money on piping you will want to replace in a year or two.  The cost difference between 1.5" and 4" is not that dramatic.  When you want to go above 4" it gets kinda crazy, but up to 4" its pretty cheap.  

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I think you may be drawing some false conclusions.  A HF 2HP model out of the box will embarrass just about any shop vac on the market.  (I am differentiating shop vac and dust extractors here.)  The most important difference is not the motor, but instead the impeller.  Most shop vacs are running tiny impellers, where a dust collector, like HF is running ~7"-8" (~2x-3x larger).   I can't remember the sizes, but the specifics aren't important, the proportionality is what counts.  

HP in a motor simply represents how much load you can put the motor under, you can gear RPMs to get the speed that is ideal.  This is important with large impeller, but not so much with small.  Don't get me wrong, HP is good, but you cannot compare a shop vac to a true DC, the math just doesn't work.  

A DC will serve you much better in the long run versus a shop vac.  A shop vac is designed for a short runs and small volumes at high CFM.  A DC is designed for long runs and greater volume more consistent CFMs.  You see the HF Frankenstein'd because folks (myself included) are trying to get higher end DC performance out of it, not because they are trying to keep up with shop vacs.  

 

Out of the box HF DC > Shop Vac for the use you are describing, plus you have the option to Frankenstein it down the road should you choose.  I did the shop vac thing in my first shop and was very disappointed.  

What do you mean by "Frankenstein-ing" one of these things? What can you change on them? I see the HF model with the stronger motor...

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3 minutes ago, Seth Clayton said:

What do you mean by "Frankenstein-ing" one of these things? What can you change on them? I see the HF model with the stronger motor...

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I was referring to the conversion from single stage non HEPA to a dual stage HEPA unit.  Basically adding a pleated felt <.03 micron filter and a separator (dust deputy).  

 

Motor strength isn't really the issue.  You can surely get better DCs with larger motors, but then you are moving into significant $$$.  2HP is a pretty respectable motor for small shop DC.  Most dual stages <$1k are smaller than 2HP.  

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20 minutes ago, Chris H said:

Dragging a 4" flex hose around your shop will be less expensive and much greater performance

I did this for a while, and had no issues. I'd do it again without hesitation if budget didn't allow for a larger system.

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11 minutes ago, Chris H said:

I was referring to the conversion from single stage non HEPA to a dual stage HEPA unit.  Basically adding a pleated felt <.03 micron filter and a separator (dust deputy).  

 

Motor strength isn't really the issue.  You can surely get better DCs with larger motors, but then you are moving into significant $$$.  2HP is a pretty respectable motor for small shop DC.  Most dual stages <$1k are smaller than 2HP.  

You can also change the impeller to the larger Rikon one if I am not mistaken. I think there is a how to somewhere on this site about that.

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I just looked... With the 20% off coupon, these things are only $160. Add $20 for shipping if you're so inclined.

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I just looked... With the 20% off coupon, these things are only $160. Add $20 for shipping if you're so inclined.

Yeah! If they're usable, its a hard deal to beat!

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1 hour ago, Chris H said:

I think you may be drawing some false conclusions.  A HF 2HP model out of the box will embarrass just about any shop vac on the market.  

Hmm. Nope.  All conclusions seem sound to me.

 The 2hp of the hf unit was the adjective added to the noun to describe it since hf sells three units.  Two piles of crap and the 2hp unit which gets pretty high marks both stock and modified. 

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13 hours ago, Brendon_t said:

Hmm. Nope.  All conclusions seem sound to me.

 The 2hp of the hf unit was the adjective added to the noun to describe it since hf sells three units.  Two piles of crap and the 2hp unit which gets pretty high marks both stock and modified. 

So perhaps we are saying the same thing.  Shopvac < 2HP HF Unit.   Yes?

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3 hours ago, Chris H said:

So perhaps we are saying the same thing.  Shopvac < 2HP HF Unit.   Yes?

Yes, and $200 hf unit is better to start out with than that tin can thin 1hp grizzly unit at $150 I was responding to. 

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Sure enough, only 2" at my HD. That's what I get for thinking.

Here goes nothing....7065015386853911635%253Faccount_id%253D1

7065015386853911635-account_id=1.jpg

To reply again

I looked at the ball valves at my local Home Depot

They only had 1 of the 2" valves for my setup, cost 12$ and DANG I couldn't hardly open the thing with 2 hands ! So tight, it almost needs that water to work properly

Soooo I WILL be making my own blast gates after all

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On 1/3/2017 at 7:57 PM, Seth Clayton said:

Smaller pipe will keep your suction up.  Think about using a thin straw vs a fat one.  Much less effort to pull liquid through one of those coffee stirrers than a garden hose.

Actually it's the opposite; the energy required to suck a litre of liquid through the coffee stirrer as opposed to the hosepipe will be way more. So logic says go for as big a pipe as possible to maintain the suction at the end (reduced to original bore)...problem there is balancing big pipe bore versus airflow velocity required to keep debris in suspension until it hits the cyclone.

 

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4 hours ago, Waldvogel Review said:

To reply again

I looked at the ball valves at my local Home Depot

They only had 1 of the 2" valves for my setup, cost 12$ and DANG I couldn't hardly open the thing with 2 hands ! So tight, it almost needs that water to work properly

Soooo I WILL be making my own blast gates after all

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The Woodworking Shows started up in Baltimore this past weekend so I bought a handful of the $3 plastic blast gates that Peachtree had to grow the system. I also got some heavy duty pipe hangers and, with them holding the ball valve firmly, I am able to turn them one handed now. 

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6 hours ago, Waldvogel Review said:

To reply again

I looked at the ball valves at my local Home Depot

They only had 1 of the 2" valves for my setup, cost 12$ and DANG I couldn't hardly open the thing with 2 hands ! So tight, it almost needs that water to work properly

Soooo I WILL be making my own blast gates after all

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You can find blast gates for significantly less than the cost of ball valves.  http://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERTEC-2-1-2-in-Blast-Gate-for-Vacuum-Dust-Collector-70133/207141280?cm_mmc=SEM|THD|google|&mid=sGGzTBmKX|dc_mtid_8903tb925190_pcrid_111416414825_pkw__pmt__product_207141280_slid_&gclid=Cj0KEQiAhs3DBRDmu-rVkuif0N8BEiQAWuUJr_Fhpvw9rQvFElP6QhJecq3uvIbgR6NoEF4zYfOjgXwaAksd8P8HAQ

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Time will tell how I end up liking the ball valves but they were in stock 10 minutes from my house and that trumped the 2 hour round trip to woodcraft or waiting for Prime shipping.

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2 hours ago, Chris H said:

i just found them on amazon too. i must not have been searching correctly before I was struggling to find them in 2.5" during my late night shopping.

Im ordering these with some other amazon items

HERE ARE THE BLAST GATES

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