coffee tree vs honey locust

[phinds]

In response to my recent call for cutoffs, @Eric kindly sent me a very nice plank of what had been presented to him as coffee tree. Because of the similarity of coffee tree and honey locust, I checked it pretty carefully and darned if I don't think it IS honey locust. Eric is checking with the sawyer he got it from.

Anyway, I have had it way on the back burner for a long time to do a little write-up on how to tell the two woods apart and this spurred me to do that now instead of in 2031 which is about when I would have otherwise gotten around to it.

The whole thing's posted here:

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_coffee tree vs honey locust/

And here are the relevant observations regarding the piece that Eric sent me.

First some pics:

 

face grain

 

end grain

end grain closeup

 

1/4" x 1/4" enlargement of a portion of the end grain closeup

 

These can be compared to what's on the link provided. My notes:

The mystery piece is 48 lbs/cuft which VERY heavily favors it being honey locust, not coffee tree

It has heavy confluence in the latewood which almost certainly says it is honey locust, not coffee tree

It has a face grain that looks a lot more like honey locust than coffee tree but this is not conclusive (compare it to my site's honey locust page and to the coffee tree page)

It has has rays that appear to me to be thicker than coffee tree which is a mild indicator that it is probably honey locust

SO ... I say it's honey locust

We'll have to wait to see what Eric's supplier has to say.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I have seen both in person and they are very similar. The trees look similar too.  

I have some coffee tree, if you need some I can send it monday.  

One more reason eric stays away from cletus wood.  

[phinds]

1 hour ago, Mike. said:

I have seen both in person and they are very similar. The trees look similar too.  

I have some coffee tree, if you need some I can send it monday.  

One more reason eric stays away from cletus wood.  

That would be great.

[Eric.]

Sorry for the delay, Paul...finally got around to resolving this.

Craig called the supplier and they confirmed that it was totally plausible that there could be honey locust mixed in with the coffeebean.  They said that they rarely receive locust trees but when they do, they get shuffled in with the coffee because they are so similar.  Just like you can often find pecan in the hickory stacks.

So there ya go...if you're convinced it's honey locust, chances are you're right.

[phinds]

Good to hear. Thanks for the followup. I AM convince that it's honey locust so I would have been VERY surprised if they had said otherwise.

[Guest]

Paul - I have a coffee tree board sitting in my car.  I will send it to you soon.  Sorry for the delay.  Chicago post offices are basically one giant welfare line.  It typically takes an hour to get through the line so I tend to procrastinate.   

I bought it from a small mill.  The sawyer tends to know his stuff so I'd be surprised if it isn't coffee tree, but we shall see.  

[phinds]

Thanks Mike. Hey, have you tried just using the USPS on-line labeling service and getting the P.O. to pick it up at your house? That's all I ever do any more. It's great. No trips to the P.O. for me for years now.

[CandorLush]

Just now, phinds said:

Thanks Mike. Hey, have you tried just using the USPS on-line labeling service and getting the P.O. to pick it up at your house? That's all I ever do any more. It's great. No trips to the P.O. for me for years now.

Do they still drop off the flat rate boxes for free as well?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, phinds said:

Thanks Mike. Hey, have you tried just using the USPS on-line labeling service and getting the P.O. to pick it up at your house? That's all I ever do any more. It's great. No trips to the P.O. for me for years now.

cool, I will do that.  

[phinds]

29 minutes ago, CandorLush said:

Do they still drop off the flat rate boxes for free as well?

ALL USPS Priority and Express boxes will be delivered to your door free.

[Eric.]

1 hour ago, Mike. said:

Paul - I have a coffee tree board sitting in my car.  I will send it to you soon.  Sorry for the delay.  Chicago post offices are basically one giant welfare line.  It typically takes an hour to get through the line so I tend to procrastinate.  

Print label, stuff wood in envelope, put in mailbox.  You can do it through paypal or through USPS.  No leper colony necessary.

[phinds]

8 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Print label, stuff wood in envelope, put in mailbox.  You can do it through paypal or through USPS.  No leper colony necessary.

Eric, I think maybe what you mean is you can do it through PayPal or just with a credit card. Whatever payment method is used, it's always going through USPS, not just PayPal.

 

[Eric.]

Eric, I think maybe what you mean is you can do it through PayPal or just with a credit card. Whatever payment method is used, it's always going through USPS, not just PayPal.

 

You can print shipping labels through PayPal as well.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Filling out forms and mailing things are difficult for me.  Makes no sense, but I have zero administrative skill.  

[phinds]

15 minutes ago, Eric. said:

You can print shipping labels through PayPal as well.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I'll be damned. Didn't know that. Thanks.

9 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Filling out forms and mailing things are difficult for me.  Makes no sense, but I have zero administrative skill.  

Well, in that case, you will like my favorite cartoon in the whole world, ever:

[estesbubba]

We have a lot of honey locust trees on our property and they are some thorny bastards!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, estesbubba said:

We have a lot of honey locust trees on our property and they are some thorny bastards!

newer cultivars don't have the thorns.  My subdivision was planted with honey locust, maple and ash when it was developed in the early 1980s.  The honey locust don't have thorns.  The ash all are dead and have been removed, which is too bad because trees don't really look like trees until they are about 30 years old.  

[AceHoleInOne]

I had turned a few sticks on the lathe, just playing around with it.Very pretty wood and hard as I recall. 

 

-Ace-

[estesbubba]

16 minutes ago, Mike. said:

newer cultivars don't have the thorns.  My subdivision was planted with honey locust, maple and ash when it was developed in the early 1980s.  The honey locust don't have thorns.  The ash all are dead and have been removed, which is too bad because trees don't really look like trees until they are about 30 years old.  

These are all native locust trees mostly growing along the stream and they are covered in thorns. I think the saplings come out of the ground thorn first  Of the hundreds of trees on our property, only 3 were planted, and they are all ash and the EAB was discovered in the area last summer. 

[phinds]

2 hours ago, Mike. said:

@phinds sorry for the delay, I have been off on another viking conquest.   I will drop these in the mail tomorrow, unless you tell me these are also honey locust

Can't be 100% sure but I'd bet money that that's honey locust. The 2nd face grain looks EXACTLY like honey locust, not much like coffee tree, and the latewood confluent parenchyma clearly starts almost immediately and it doesn't do that in coffee tree.

The one in the first face grain shot could be coffee tree if it's not the one in the end grain shot.

[Merlau]

paul are you up for identifying a piece of late 1700 to early 1800 door frame. its hard and heavy real dark color i have a cross section but no face grain

[phinds]

2 hours ago, Merlau said:

paul are you up for identifying a piece of late 1700 to early 1800 door frame. its hard and heavy real dark color i have a cross section but no face grain

I'm always interested in trying to ID woods. I'm confused though. How can you have a cross section and no face grain? Do you mean you just have a picture of it?

[phinds]

Sounds good. Thanks.

[Merlau]

the piece i have left is only 3/8" thick off the end of one of the frames. i think i still have a 16" long piece if i havnt used it or given it away, but its buried behind a lot of other valuables:)

[phinds]

Mike,

Got the pieces. Definitely honey locust based on color (more red than brown), density (46+ lbs/cuft), face grain swirl, and most importantly the end grain characteristics. You made such a nice clean cut (wish I had your saw blade) that I don't even need to do my end grain processing. Here are a couple of pics just so you can compare it to what I show in the link. These are the same 1/4" x 1/4" cross section shown there and you can clearly see how the confluent parenchyma starts very early in the latewood, which it often does in honey locust and never does in coffee tree

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/_coffee tree vs honey locust/