Tpt life Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I think this is why doctors have so many qualification letters behind their title. Woodworking sort of had those roots. A cooper, a wheelright, a cabinet maker...the titles said something about the type of work being done. The huge level of industrial machinery brought to the market has blurred the issue a lot. I tend to be with Eric, but don't look down my nose in any way. If you want to learn the craft, engage the skills necessary to make successful M and T. Like he said, the skills transfer. If like me you are more of a maker, dabble here and there. Just don't expect Eric to call you a woodworker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I'm not so caught up in the label as the mentality. It's just beyond my comprehension to pursue a craft without putting in effort. It's not how I approach things. Guess that's my problem for taking the long way home. I think ultimately it makes for a better craftsman - and at the risk of sounding smug (too late) - a better person. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 That's an entirely false equivalency, and you know it. If you're implying that a person who calls himself a woodworker shouldn't know such a basic and fundamental technique as cutting a mortise and tenon, then we just don't share the same definition of "woodworker." Yeah its a ridiculous example i'll admit. My point is that i dont think there needs to be qualifiers for using certain tools or techniques. If a woodworker never desires to use that type of joinery then why should it matter? Most woodworkers will learn and experiment with all sorts of joinery as part of their journey. I just dont agree that one must come before the other. I did a few small projects with mortise and tenons, wedged through tenons, and some other joints i dont have a names for. It was a huge learning experience and alot of fun. Then i got a domino and it hasnt diminished my desire to learn or experiment at all. I doubt i'll be doing many regular mortise and tenons now, but there is so much that the domino cant replace that i just dont see it as this huge cheating or step-skipping mechanism. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 18 minutes ago, sheperd80 said: If a woodworker never desires to use that type of joinery then why should it matter? For the same reason you learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide before you learn algebra. Yes you could probably solve the equation with a fancy calculator...but you're not gonna be very good at math. Over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rodger. Posted February 4, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Man, I could have cut 40 m and t joints in the time it took to read this thread... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Man, I could have cut 40 m and t joints in the time it took to read this thread... Or done 90 dominos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Eric. said: I'm not so caught up in the label as the mentality. It's just beyond my comprehension to pursue a craft without putting in effort. It's not how I approach things. Guess that's my problem for taking the long way home. I think ultimately it makes for a better craftsman - and at the risk of sounding smug (too late) - a better person. Not everyone has the same approach to woodworking as you do. I like to make things with wood and try to learn as much as possible from each project I build. Period. Woodworking is not my religion, I do not meditate with Krenov books or seek salvation through woodworking LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I agree with Eric here in principle. The m&t is a basic joint that requires skills that will be used in maaaany other areas in furniture making....you know, the type of woodworking 95% of us do. To muddle the thread a bit more though, do you guys think that having a woodworking hobby makes you a woodworker? I can't swallow calling myself a woodworker. My biggest hobby is woodworking...but I am not a woodworker. Further, my basement is a basement with a bunch of woodworking tools and a workbench, not a shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 23 minutes ago, Immortan D said: I do not meditate with Krenov books You should try it. It's enlightening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, bleedinblue said: To muddle the thread a bit more though, do you guys think that having a woodworking hobby makes you a woodworker? I can't swallow calling myself a woodworker. My biggest hobby is woodworking...but I am not a woodworker. Further, my basement is a basement with a bunch of woodworking tools and a workbench, not a shop. I agree. I'm not a woodworker, just a hobbyist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, bleedinblue said: I agree with Eric here in principle. The m&t is a basic joint that requires skills that will be used in maaaany other areas in furniture making....you know, the type of woodworking 95% of us do. To muddle the thread a bit more though, do you guys think that having a woodworking hobby makes you a woodworker? I can't swallow calling myself a woodworker. My biggest hobby is woodworking...but I am not a woodworker. Further, my basement is a basement with a bunch of woodworking tools and a workbench, not a shop. This is really a sticky that depends a lot on the level of accomplishment. I know B and C level symphony musicians who hold various day jobs. I don't hesitate to call them musicians. On the flip side, I don't call the evening car repair guy a mechanic unless he has that in his background and training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tom King Posted February 4, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I don't have any use for a Domino. These haunched tenons are 9/16" thick, and 3-71/6" long. There were 160 of them on this job. I used machines to help, but each was hand fitted to be tight. No glue-just pegs. Also, there was about 500 square feet of wood that was hand planed on that single job. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, C Shaffer said: On the flip side, I don't call the evening car repair guy a mechanic unless he has that in his background and training. Bah, hogwash. I'm sure there are plenty of self-taught mechanics who could do circles around formally trained technicians. A woodworker is only someone who works with wood. That's why labels don't mean anything. A guy who nails pallets together is technically a woodworker. I wouldn't want him to build me a chest of drawers though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, Lester Burnham said: OP is going to have a nice bit of reading to do if he ever comes back. Indeed, much bloviaton on the nature of wood and working. Ironically, I do woodworking in part to get away from that stuff. I try to make nice things while improving my skills and keeping things interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Llama Posted February 4, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 Just as I do not call CNC operators Machinists.. They are button pushers. Being a "woodworker" requires more than a push of a button, more than turning on a machine and making a perfect joint. I visited a cabinet making shop a few weeks ago. Plywood stacked up beside a beam saw. The operator puts the sheet on the machine, another machine applies bar codes for the saw to read what part is what, cuts them to perfect size, and then goes to the edge bander. Another machine cuts holes for screws and dowels. These cabinets are fully assembled in less than 10 minutes. An entire set of Euro style cabinets for a kitchen can be done in less than 30 minutes. Are the people running those machines woodworkers? Even their job title says "machine operator", and they are paid a menial wage for their work. It is a far-cry from what we do in our shops. Their jointers and planers have long since been replaced with more CNC machines. The stuff they did have is covered in dust. Not wood dust (I hate the word sawdust...) just dust from not being used. So what does this mean... I have no idea... On one hand I don't think we need to start out being like Roy Underhill in order to be a woodworker. I do, however, believe that you should be able to make a simple joint by hand and to be able to S4S a rough sawn board with hand planes. In the end, it's really dumb to argue about it. Are you going to be worse off by learning a new skill? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 If you don't want to learn the skill, I guess that is up to the person. The thing that irks me is people who own all the fancy hand tools and can't use them properly. Might as well be a professional tool polisher. I've been out of my shop for about 2 years and I guarantee you I can still cut a dovetail that you couldn't squeeze a fart through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 Nice to see @Freddie comment appear! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted February 5, 2017 Report Share Posted February 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Lester Burnham said: My new goal in woodworking life: Fartproof dovetails. Just don't make a video to prove it if you succeed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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