Hybrid/Contractor Table Saws, 120/240V, and Cast Iron vs. Steel wings.


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I've posted a lot about Table Saws recently. This is because I am really in the market for one. I was definitely talked out of going for a small job site table saw for making real furniture, so we don't need to rehash that. I was also talked out of looking into ultra-premium cabinet saws like the Saw Stops, Powermatics, and Unisaws of the world. So, I have been focusing on what I've seen marketed as a "Contractor" or "Hybrid" saws. I would love to have someone step in and break it all down for me as to where these terms came from, and what the real difference is between a Contractor saw and a Cabinet saw, other than one has an open stand and the other's is closed in. But here are my specific questions. 

I have narrowed my looking down to the Delta 36-5000 and the Delta 36-5100.

  1. They both have 120/240 voltage. What is the performance difference between running this saw at 120V vs. 240V? Obviously there is twice the voltage, but what is the real world advantage of one over the other?
  2. One has Steel Wings, and the other has Cast Iron. What's the difference there, really?
  3. Does anyone have any experience with these two saws and possibly a comparable third option that I have not seen that is in the $700-$900 price range?

 

 

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1. The advantage to running a saw on 240V is that there is less voltage drop from the panel to the machine. Not a factor if you have a panel close by.

2. Cast wings are flat & smooth. Much nicer to have. Stamped wings are sort of flat & have a bit of a ribbed surface. You want cast, unless they are the open web type cast wings. They are terrible. Stuff drops through them & if your not careful they'll bite your fingers when sliding the fence across them.

3. I have no experience with either saw. However, I'll say that it will be a very long while before I buy another Delta machine. They have a horrible history of poor customer service & parts scarcity. I have a Delta planer, that while a good machine, will end up in the recycle bin if it breaks down & needs parts.

I bet Grizzly has something comparable & they will have much better customer service. I had a Jet contractors saw that was very good.

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2 hours ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

I've posted a lot about Table Saws recently. This is because I am really in the market for one. I was definitely talked out of going for a small job site table saw for making real furniture, so we don't need to rehash that. I was also talked out of looking into ultra-premium cabinet saws like the Saw Stops, Powermatics, and Unisaws of the world. So, I have been focusing on what I've seen marketed as a "Contractor" or "Hybrid" saws. I would love to have someone step in and break it all down for me as to where these terms came from, and what the real difference is between a Contractor saw and a Cabinet saw, other than one has an open stand and the other's is closed in. But here are my specific questions. 

I have narrowed my looking down to the Delta 36-5000 and the Delta 36-5100.

  1. They both have 120/240 voltage. What is the performance difference between running this saw at 120V vs. 240V? Obviously there is twice the voltage, but what is the real world advantage of one over the other?
  2. One has Steel Wings, and the other has Cast Iron. What's the difference there, really?
  3. Does anyone have any experience with these two saws and possibly a comparable third option that I have not seen that is in the $700-$900 price range?

 

 

Here is a breakdown of the difference between cabinet/contractor/hybrid saws.

http://www.rockler.com/how-to/table-shop/

 

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You seem to have dropped form the premium saws $2500 plus to $700, that's a big drop. There are saws in between.  I have a Laguna 10" fusion cabinet saw, about $1300.  Cast iron table and wings, 110V, 36" rip capacity (enough for base cabinets which is important to me).  The fence is an aluminum cover over interior steel tube.  Works for me.  Laguna tech support is awesome.  Just food for thought.

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4 minutes ago, Ronn W said:

You seem to have dropped form the premium saws $2500 plus to $700, that's a big drop. There are saws in between.  I have a Laguna 10" fusion cabinet saw, about $1300.  Cast iron table and wings, 110V, 36" rip capacity (enough for base cabinets which is important to me).  The fence is an aluminum cover over interior steel tube.  Works for me.  Laguna tech support is awesome.  Just food for thought.

It was more like a drop from $2,500 to $900. It does seem though that there are more options out there. However, I do not think that there is a smooth ramp up. Prices seem to go from $550 for the Rigid/Delta 13-amp contractor saw, up to $900 for the Delta 36-5100 Contractor/Hybrid, and then straight to $1,300 for a Laguna or Jet ShopPro, and then $1,799 for the Powermatic Hybrid. I guess I do have some research to do. There are a lot of options. And now that I've written a lot of them out, I guess there is a reasonable "ramp up" in that there seems to be a $400 jump in price with each "tier" you move up. I guess I'm just belly-aching because I wish I had more cash. I know I could do more than just fine with the lowest end of all of these. I don't know why I keep allowing myself to drift towards the Powermatic/Jet/Lagna higher-end saws. I'm weak I tell ya! I'm a weak man! ;-)

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I picked up a (used) Grizzly 1023, together with a planer, jointer and (Craftsman) bandsaw for $1500.  I think that was a good deal(!) but I'm guessing that you can probably find a good used cabinet saw for under $1K.  (I also inherited the parts for a Delta TS, but gave them away.)  If it were me, I'd pay a little more if a used Powermatic came calling.

[Edit: and Ron has the right attitude about his tool. ;-)

[Edit 2:  I previously had a small, 10" contractor saw and did pretty much everything on it that I do now on the cabinet saw; possibly excepting slightly better dust collection.]

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9 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I'm with Ronn...it seems like you're ignoring the saws in the middle, which IMO are the best bang for your buck. I've been saying for years now that it's hard to justify buying any saw other than a SS 3HP PCS on the high end or a Grizzly 3HP cabinet saw on the low end. Hybrid and contractor saws will always involve compromise. If you plan to woodwork the rest of your life, it's advisable to seriously consider a cabinet saw. They're superior in every way and you can get a Grizzly for a few hundred more than those little Delta toys you're looking at.

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This .... end of thread 

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1 hour ago, Eric. said:

I'm with Ronn...it seems like you're ignoring the saws in the middle, which IMO are the best bang for your buck. I've been saying for years now that it's hard to justify buying any saw other than a SS 3HP PCS on the high end or a Grizzly 3HP cabinet saw on the low end. Hybrid and contractor saws will always involve compromise. If you plan to woodwork the rest of your life, it's advisable to seriously consider a cabinet saw. They're superior in every way and you can get a Grizzly for a few hundred more than those little Delta toys you're looking at.

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Nailed it.

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Eric has it here. I will just drop a few other comments while I'm around. I bought a used Ridgid r4512 for about $150, even new I believe it's the best bang for your buck in a Hybrid saw. I expect to use it as long as I have my small (narrow one-car) shop, and upgrade to a SS once I have space. It won't let you down, but you will always know there's something better available out there.

Steel wings work... But they are a pain. Mine are dented and drooped from the previous owner, and even new I can't seeing them ever being a valid reference surface.

14 hours ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

And I could not afford one even if I saved for a year. But, I could stretch my savings, and take my tax return buy a solid $900 hybrid/contractor saw. 

A Grizzly cabinet saw is above your stated price range, but I refuse to believe you can't save up for it if that's what you really want. Sure it can be painful, but if you want a saw that will last the rest of your life and do everything you want to do, the Grizzly can be that saw (assuming you don't get a lemon, which seems to be a risk with any saw south of $3000). Even working minimum wage, you can save more than you think with a little determination.

Or lets put it another way. The difference between your budget and a Grizzly Cabinet saw is 40 bdft of Mahogany (going by woodworkers source pricing). Or 4/5 sheets of cabinet-grade ply.

 

TLDR: Those Delta's are too expensive for the Hybrid category. If you go Hybrid, buy an r4512. If not, save your money and get a Cabinet Saw.

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I have a Ridgid R4512 going on 6-7 years. At some point I want to upgrade to Saw Stop because my son likes to be in the shop with me and would like at some point to have a table saw I trust. My R4512 has its quirks but I know what they are and operate the saw accordingly. Several months ago when I got serious about getting back into woodworking, recently bought a house and now have dedicated space, I spent a day dialing everything in on the saw. Fence, miter slots and blade are within .002". I figure that's good enough for woodworking. 

 

Would I buy this saw again, no, but I am content with it for now. I would look at some Grizzly hybrids, if for nothing else their customer service. I hear its top notch.

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Eric basically nailed it. If u dont wanna spring for the 3hp grizz (about 1500) then atleast look at their smaller cabinet saw. But if ur serious about woodworking youll probably end up regretting that delta. Aside from being a cheap contractor saw, it has a major design flaw that i wouldnt be willing to deal with. The 2 piece fence rail is a deal breaker.

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