Derek_PNW

My Micro Wood-Shop (its a garage)

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That's a nightmare?  I just call it progress.  Your timing is alot like mine though.

 

A good way to look at it. :) I made a lot of progress today and made a bigger mess!

 

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Now I need to build out the mounting plate for the blower. I say this confidently, but honestly I didn't design it correctly. I thought the top beam would have more room to mount the wall mount. Oops! :)

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I rejected the enclosure and mounted to the concrete wall. The CV1800 is loud even when connected to the 25' of 6" flex hose! I now need to figure out how to muffle this beast. I know most the sound is the exhaust. So thinking up an small enclosure. Any sound engineers?

 

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4 hours ago, Derek_PNW said:

Any sound engineers?

No sound engineer, but I did many hours of research before building my collector closet. The room is in my basement next to the garage. 

Good sound reduction depends of 3 things: absorption, isolation, & mass. Here is what I ended up with:

Walls & ceiling:

5/8" drywall - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall - 2.5" steel stud c/w Safe 'n Sound mineral wool - 1" air space - 2.5" steel stud c/w mineral wool - 5/8" drywall - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall. The walls & ceiling are also mostly isolated from the structure of the house, just secured to the concrete floor & the wall that is adjoining the garage. I didn't care as much if a little sound got into the shop. Keeping noise out of the house was my primary concern.

There are 2 doors hung back to back. Each one is an insulated exterior pre-hung steel door with a layer of 3/4" MDF with Green Glue secured to on side. Each jamb is also fitted with a secondary set of weather strip the seals against the MDF. The 2 jambs are also isolated from each other by a 1/2" of heavy closed cell foam weather strip.

The return air duct is about 32" x 10", with a dogleg & a right angle bend, & is lined with fiberglass duct liner insulation. 

No measured results, but if I'm standing 5' away from the doors & start he blower, I can't hear it at all. I have to get my ear within about a foot of the door to hear anything. Out in the shop it can certainly be heard, but it's not loud at all. Normal volume conversation can easily be heard. Any of my power tools running at idle easily drown out the collector noise. 

The 3HP compressor is also in the room & it can be heard from the shop if nothing else is running.

I probably definitely went overboard on this, but I wanted to see what could be achieved & had a blast doing it.

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No sound engineer, but I did many hours of research before building my collector closet. The room is in my basement next to the garage. 

Good sound reduction depends of 3 things: absorption, isolation, & mass. Here is what I ended up with:

Walls & ceiling:

5/8" drywall - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall - 2.5" steel stud c/w Safe 'n Sound mineral wool - 1" air space - 2.5" steel stud c/w mineral wool - 5/8" drywall - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall. The walls & ceiling are also mostly isolated from the structure of the house, just secured to the concrete floor & the wall that is adjoining the garage. I didn't care as much if a little sound got into the shop. Keeping noise out of the house was my primary concern.

There are 2 doors hung back to back. Each one is an insulated exterior pre-hung steel door with a layer of 3/4" MDF with Green Glue secured to on side. Each jamb is also fitted with a secondary set of weather strip the seals against the MDF. The 2 jambs are also isolated from each other by a 1/2" of heavy closed cell foam weather strip.

The return air duct is about 32" x 10", with a dogleg & a right angle bend, & is lined with fiberglass duct liner insulation. 

No measured results, but if I'm standing 5' away from the doors & start he blower, I can't hear it at all. I have to get my ear within about a foot of the door to hear anything. Out in the shop it can certainly be heard, but it's not loud at all. Normal volume conversation can easily be heard. Any of my power tools running at idle easily drown out the collector noise. 

The 3HP compressor is also in the room & it can be heard from the shop if nothing else is running.

I probably definitely went overboard on this, but I wanted to see what could be achieved & had a blast doing it.

 

Impressive! The walls of the closet have to be thick. Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of space. I am thinking about repurposing the lumber from my original cabinet and closing in the filters in a horizontal position. If I can quiet the beast by 10DB I will be happy. I don't need it to be whisper quiet, even though it would be awesome. Found quite a bit of research on horizontal filters and I believe I can make a pulley system to lower them into a vertical position for cleaning.

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Hissing is a result of pressure. You can reduce inlet or outlet pressure by varying the geometry down or upstream. Outlet pressure is a downstream variety. Anything that will slow down the speed by rerouting some of the air will help. Think suppressor geometry for rifles. Also think expansion chambers in vehicle exhaust. The motor itself can benefit from an enclosure, but most of your noise is the pressure change at inlet and outlet. 

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13 hours ago, drzaius said:

5/8" drywall - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall - 2.5" steel stud c/w Safe 'n Sound mineral wool - 1" air space - 2.5" steel stud c/w mineral wool - 5/8" drywall - Green Glue - 5/8" drywall. The walls & ceiling are also mostly isolated from the structure of the house, just secured to the concrete floor & the wall that is adjoining the garage. I didn't care as much if a little sound got into the shop. Keeping noise out of the house was my primary concern.

There are 2 doors hung back to back. Each one is an insulated exterior pre-hung steel door with a layer of 3/4" MDF with Green Glue secured to on side. Each jamb is also fitted with a secondary set of weather strip the seals against the MDF. The 2 jambs are also isolated from each other by a 1/2" of heavy closed cell foam weather strip.

The return air duct is about 32" x 10", with a dogleg & a right angle bend, & is lined with fiberglass duct liner insulation. 

No measured results, but if I'm standing 5' away from the doors & start he blower, I can't hear it at all. I have to get my ear within about a foot of the door to hear anything. Out in the shop it can certainly be heard, but it's not loud at all. Normal volume conversation can easily be heard. Any of my power tools running at idle easily drown out the collector noise. 

The 3HP compressor is also in the room & it can be heard from the shop if nothing else is running.

I probably definitely went overboard on this, but I wanted to see what could be achieved & had a blast doing it.

Holy crap...this needs pics so badly.  Whatta impressive setup sir.

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Saw the car in the background in one photo.  What's it going to be when it grows up? :P  My shop is very small and a couple of power tools have to be moved on casters so I can work on projects.  i like the DC system.  I need to figure out a way to mount my Shop Vac on a wall and run PVC or flex pipe to reach all my power tools, which are close together in a small shop.  Thanks for sharing the shop pics!

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7 hours ago, MattF said:

Did I just come across your outfeed table on craigslist?

 

Maybe. . . Yes I posted it to see if I could recover some of the $$$ spent on building it. I am going to downsize the outfeed table so I can make my table saw stationary against the wall. Also. . . Parents of college students are buying the town homes up around us and parking is getting tight. So my shop's dimensions will go back to my original size mentioned in my first post. I am looking at building this outfeed table from the Down to Earth Woodworker.

http://www.downtoearthwoodworking.com/sawstop-outfeed-table

Honestly I am not sad about all of the shop projects since it allows me to try many methods before I continue on my actual projects. . .

Getting closer to your roubo workbench build? It really looks like a fun build, but I don't have the space currently. However, I have been looking to take a few hand tool courses since I like the precision of hand tools.

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12 hours ago, Derek_PNW said:

Maybe. . . Yes I posted it to see if I could recover some of the $$$ spent on building it. I am going to downsize the outfeed table so I can make my table saw stationary against the wall. Also. . . Parents of college students are buying the town homes up around us and parking is getting tight. So my shop's dimensions will go back to my original size mentioned in my first post. I am looking at building this outfeed table from the Down to Earth Woodworker.

http://www.downtoearthwoodworking.com/sawstop-outfeed-table

Honestly I am not sad about all of the shop projects since it allows me to try many methods before I continue on my actual projects. . .

Getting closer to your roubo workbench build? It really looks like a fun build, but I don't have the space currently. However, I have been looking to take a few hand tool courses since I like the precision of hand tools.

Yeah, getting closer. Spent a bunch of money on router bits and drill bits at Woodcraft this weekend. Working on straight line ripping the lumber so I can cut it down on the bandsaw. Looking to take a week off of work for bench building, just not sure when that will be. 

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0717a1a857cc3c3a9e488c02bd8caad0.jpg

 

I thought I would be completely done with setting up my dust collector by now... turns out this is a multiple month, one day a week project. Almost completed both enclosures and they have both made a reasonable dent in the noise.

 

The filter enclosure is 3/4" MDF/Green Glue/3/4" MDF and 2" Roxul AFB... it is seriously heavy and was a chore to lift upright. The blower enclosure is the same MDF construction with Green Glue but stuffed with the Roxul AFB. Trimming the insulated flex duct and running the duct work is still on the list for another day...

 

I will be happy once I have everything hooked up. Working with MDF and no DC is a nightmare. The fine dust is everywhere and luckily it is formaldehyde free. Just to get to my car I feel like I should have a respirator on. [emoji23]

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On 5/22/2017 at 1:48 AM, drzaius said:

No sound engineer, but I did many hours of research before building my collector closet. The room is in my basement next to the garage. 

Good sound reduction depends of 3 things: absorption, isolation, & mass. Here is what I ended up with:

 

I would think you could get some vibrations coming through the concrete where you have the collector bolted to the wall...   If that's a problem, maybe some sorbothane washers?

As far as the noise from the air flow though...  The air has to go somewhere, and you could run it through some sort of baffle system, but that's a lot of air flow so it'd be a pretty big baffle.

I just can't imagine a dust collector being that loud.   My harbor freight is loud, but no louder than my sawstop...  The tools which really make a racket are the vacuum and then the universal brushed motors like router, miter saw, and air compressors.   I had a larger compressor but replaced it with a little 1 gallon Senco PC1010 compressor which is really quiet.   I only use it with my brad nailer, so having the bigger compressor wasn't necessary.

 

I have a buddy who does sound & vibration consulting... there is some pretty nifty equipment that'll pinpoint your problem areas, but it might cost more than your dust collector. :-)

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Minnesota Steve said:

I would think you could get some vibrations coming through the concrete where you have the collector bolted to the wall...   If that's a problem, maybe some sorbothane washers?

It's floor standing & the stand has rubber feet. At any rate, there's nothing that I can hear coming through the floor.

 

2 hours ago, Minnesota Steve said:

As far as the noise from the air flow though...  The air has to go somewhere, and you could run it through some sort of baffle system, but that's a lot of air flow so it'd be a pretty big baffle.

It is a pretty big baffle:

On 22/05/2017 at 0:48 AM, drzaius said:

The return air duct is about 32" x 10", with a dogleg & a right angle bend, & is lined with fiberglass duct liner insulation.

That's the weakest link in the whole system. I can hear blower noise through it, but just barely. I was not as concerned with noise in the shop as I was in the house. The DC is drowned out by any machine that is running, so it's quiet enough for my comfort even when nothing else is running & I have no ear protection on. By far the most noise comes from the inlets & leakage through closed blast gates. If I open a couple of big gates, it quiets right down.

 

2 hours ago, Minnesota Steve said:

I just can't imagine a dust collector being that loud.   My harbor freight is loud, but no louder than my sawstop...

But how big is that blower? When you get up to a 5HP blower, it gets noisy.

2 hours ago, Minnesota Steve said:

I have a buddy who does sound & vibration consulting... there is some pretty nifty equipment that'll pinpoint your problem areas, but it might cost more than your dust collector. :-)

That is just crazy. What a powerful tool that would be!

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Finished up the CV1800 enclosure yesterday. Now it is time for the finishing touches; running the ducting, final connection to the filters, modify dust ports on the three stationary tools, build an assembly/outfeed table, and finish the coffee table. Also, cutting PVC pipe on the table saw makes horrible teal confetti [emoji322] and well the cut off portion slings across the garage after I complete the cut... I know.... not safe but I am far away from the projectile. Open to better solutions. Unfortunately I have to put my progress on pause as I am on a plane to Chicago for work. Here is the progress:

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I had a productive weekend in the shop! Finished the duct installation. Each branch terminates in a 6" and 4" inlet. The 6" inlets will be used for the cabinet of the table saw, jointer, and planer. I will be switching the hose between the jointer and planer. All tool ports will be modified. The 4" inlets will be used for a DustRite floor sweep and the other will be used for an overhead dust collection blade guard for the table saw. Looking to buy the SawStop floating blade guard.

 

Additionally I have prepped two end grain cutting boards out of walnut and hard maple. One board is at the CNC shop at my girlfriends work. We are carving the John Deere logo in the board and will do a walnut inlay. This is for her grandpa's 90th! The other is for my grandma. First two boards and wishing I had a drum sander.

 

Oh I also cleaned and organized everything.... so much dust and confetti from the PVC...

 

Here is a few pictures.

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Very nice view . I always liked farms and old farm houses and barns exc.  Your shop is looking good also and I bet the old guy will like his John Deere board.

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Today we hauled in about 300 bales of hay with this great Man you see on his John Deere. He used to bail everything by hand. Now he has guys like me to lift all the hay onto the trailer and unload it. #yesihaveafarmerstan #whoneedscrossfitanyways



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Also, here is the finished cutting board. CNC's are really cool... I know there is a mix of long grain and end grain but I can guarantee this is going to lean up on the wall as kitchen art instead of being used... [emoji23]



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Oh... this man also logs red & white oak and maple for firewood. He uses it for sugaring and warming the house. I guess when you have hundreds of acres of it, why not? There are about another 20x 20-25 ft sections down in the lower meadow waiting to be turned into firewood. That is our task tomorrow.


 


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Great place!   Nice cutting board!  What gets fed with the square bales?

 

Thanks. Currently, there are three horses that are fed the hay in the winter. I believe two quarter horses and Molly the draft horse. There was almost 4,800 bales of hay in the two barns pictured below for winter back in the day. We are now aiming for about 1,200 for winter. I believe we have collected about 800 bales this week. Tomorrow the thunderstorms will be gone and we will mow, rake, ted, and bale another 300-400 bales. Thank goodness for two tractors. Her Grandpa before the 1950's did everything by hand, but told his father they really needed to buy the equipment since he was doing all the work. [emoji23]

 

Taking a hike to the saw mill today and looking for some wind fallen hardwood. Grandpa wants to get my a slab from a maple tree to make a mantle. That will be cool.

 

He also has a cool workshop full of old power tools and such.

 

I have learned a lot and will continue to share pictures!

 

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51 minutes ago, Derek_PNW said:

I have learned a lot and will continue to share pictures!

Stop! You're torturing me!.  What a gorgeous place, and way of life!  I don't know how you could possibly return to Seattle, I know I wouldn't.

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