Popular Post bgreenb Posted May 18, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 14 hours ago, K Cooper said: That is a pretty cool restoration/remodel/rebuild job. In your first post, you mentioned that your ambition was to make money off of the project. Is that still in the foreseeable future? We went under agreement last week, 5 days after listing. Assuming the sale goes through (home inspection tomorrow and P&S next week, knock on wood), I will have made enough to justify it and for it to serve as a proof of concept for future projects. That is, unless I were to account for my hours and pay myself minimum wage, in which case I probably lost like $200k 14 hours ago, Llama said: How did you decide to restore this house? (instead of another one) At which point(s) did you say, F it! This sucks!!?? Have you learned any ways to protect you/your investment/profit on the (possibly) next one with what you have learned? I chose this house for a few reasons. The market in my town is very hot, and even fairly significant projects don't fetch much of a discount. To get a significant discount on a house, it really needs to be in dire straits. So there aren't too many opportunities that come on the market. This was one that nobody wanted to touch because of how old it was and the terrible condition. This allowed me to get a price with plenty of room for disaster (like having to replace the whole second floor). Another reason was that it's so close to my house that it's easy to quickly shoot over there and do a little work. Since this was a night and weekend project for me, convenient location was important. I'd say that I said "F this" only a few times in the project. There were some great days where everything felt like it was going perfectly, and then some days were the opposite. Just like in the shop. But I think overall I kept a pretty good attitude. Part of that was being so green I had beginner's enthusiasm that allowed me to stare down some significant challenges. Every subcontractor that came to look at the house before I did anything would make a face as if to say "this kid is screwed" and then say to me "man you really have your work cut out for you here." And honestly that lit a fire under me. Because I knew what they were thinking, that I bit off more than I could chew, etc. I've always been like that - the more naysayers, the more people who tell me how hard something is, the more I want to prove that I can do it. I learned tons of lessons. I'll try to distill some of them at the end of this journal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted May 18, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 After I fully gutted the house, the first job in the "renovation" part of the project was to tackle new subfloors. The floor system framing had all been fixed/replaced as part of the structural work I showed earlier, so all that remained was to nail down some advantech. Sounds simple enough. Except that the house was still significantly out of level. The structural work had definitely improved it, but it was still about 7-8" out from the front left corner to the back right corner. I've been in plenty of old houses and sometimes even significant settling can be ok and add to the house's character. But this was way beyond acceptable. I started by trying to use a string with a string level to establish a level plane that I could measure from. That...didn't work. The string was nowhere near taut enough, and the string level was total crap. Waste of $3.99. So I decided to sack up and buy a rotary laser level. I've wanted one for a long time anyway. Probably the best money I spent in this whole project. I used it countless times and it saved my bacon each time. So I brought the rotary level in and turned it on, and I used it to make a crude topographical "map" of each joist. I took measurements at each end of the joist to get a number of inches that I had to make up to get level with the high point. I then worked my way from the high point to the low point, cutting long tapered shims out of PT stock using my bandsaw. This was a PAINSTAKING process. I would literally cut the shims in my shop, drivethem to the project house, screw them down, place the sheet of advantech, make adjustments, measure for the next shims (because everything was always off ever so slightly from my "map"), then go back to my shop to cut them, rinse and repeat. Took me almost a month to do the whole first floor (about 1000sf). First few sheets going down: More progress: As I moved across the floor, I gave up a little bit on each sheet. I wasn't trying to get it dead nuts level. But I wanted it at least reasonably coplanar. I didn't care if it sloped a little as long as it all stayed mostly in one plane. Boom! Harkening back to @Llama's question about lessons, one that I had to learn several times was that building a house isn't the same as building a piece of furniture. Framing ain't fine woodworking. I had to keep reminding myself (or being reminded by others) to stop caring about every little detail. A great one was during the subfloor, my father in law came to help me for a day, and I was fiddling around with a sheet of advantech, shimming one end of it, for several minutes. My FiL looked at me from across the room, puzzled, and asked me what I was doing. I said "just shimming - this sheet is about 1/8 out over 8'." He laughed and goes "Brian you're laying subfloor not cutting dovetails. Nail it off and go get another sheet." As I got toward the low side of the house, it became too much "altitude" to make up with shims. So I took advantage of the new floor plan I was planning, and made a step down from the kitchen into the mudroom. Seemed like a natural place to have a step, and allowed me to deal with the low point in the house in a natural way while keeping everything else in plane. Boom! And next onto the first floor wall framing. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 32 minutes ago, bgreenb said: 7-8" out from the front left corner to the back right corner Wow. That's where a lesser man cuts his losses and tucks tail. Like I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted May 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Eric. said: Wow. That's where a lesser man cuts his losses and tucks tail. Like I would. As recommended by several people far more experienced than myself. And their words were gasoline on the fire under my ass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat60 Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Nice work man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I'm sure it will be a very comfortable house. I'd feel a lot more comfortable in it than the average new house these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Time to frame some walls. I approached the exterior wall framing by basically pretending the existing studs weren't there and maintaining proper spacing between the new studs. Since I was moving some window locations, that required cutting out a few of the existing studs, but not many. I think I ended up cutting out maybe 2-3 in the whole house. And I'm happy about that because cutting them out ain't easy. It's not like cutting a stud out in a recently stick framed house where you can just slip your sawzall blade behind the stud and cut all the nails between the sheathing and the stud, then make one cut in the middle and pry it out. These studs are mortised (and pinned) into the summer beam and then the 1" solid pine sheathing is nailed in using cut nails...which in spite of their name are really hard to...cut. In any case, I worked my way around the house gradually, starting in the front. Again, I essentially framed it as if the existing post and beam framing wasn't there. I felt kind of silly installing 2x8 window headers...not like the 6x6 spandrel beam above it was going to sag over a 30" window opening span, but I wanted to make sure the inspector was happy, and 2x lumber is cheap. Then I got to the back wall, and another disaster struck. I had left a little bit of demo on the back wall for reasons I won't get into because they're complicated and boring. But when I finally exposed the rear summer beam to get the wall framing in, it was completely rotted in about a 10-12' section. Not good. I puzzled for a while about the best way to fix it, trying to patch the section, trying epoxy filler (not an option, too much rot)...eventually came to the decision that the best way to fix it was to just take the whole back wall off the house and redo it. So I set up shoring sticks beneath each of the ceiling beams after jacking them up a bit to take pressure off the spandrel beam, which I then removed. My father in law surveying the wreckage: You can see some of the rot in the top left of the photo in that section of beam I hadn't cut out yet. I then framed in a new wall using a double 2x6 top plate to take the place of the summer beam (so the beams now lapped on top of the top plate). I'll admit it was pretty disconcerting working in this space with the entire top of the house just floating above me. But I took the time to nail everything off so the shoring posts weren't going anywhere. Next I went around and re-cut all the window openings and patched the sheathing where necessary. I needed to fur out the studs where I was using half inch plywood to bring it out flush with the original 1" pine sheathing. I then cleaned out the inside and finished up a few odds and ends to prepare for the professional framing crew that was coming to do the new second floor. Note that the central load bearing wall doesn't appear here either because I left that to the professionals. It involved some critical spacing drawn up in the engineering plans, pouring a new footing, some versalams, and five point loads, and I thought it best to let the pros handle that. Finally, I wrapped the first floor in tyvek. Another lesson learned...using a 9' roll of tyvek doesn't go faster than using a 3' roll and doing 3 courses. In fact, it's slower. GOod luck handling a 9' roll of material that basically becomes a sail on a windy day. Next up...off comes the roof! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 The hand-hewing on those beams. OMG This is an awesome journal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Eric. said: The hand-hewing on those beams. OMG This is an awesome journal. Yeah it was a cool feeling taking this house apart and just seeing all the cool construction techniques, tool marks, etc. It absolutely blew my mind how much work was involved in building a house 300 years ago, just thinking about all that work minus electricity. And they didn't even have a set of shaptons and an MK2 to sharpen their chisels and plane irons!! But then again every time I thought "how did they ever finish this?" it then occurred to me that 1) it's not like they had iPhones to play on all day or tv to watch and 2) it must have been a powerful motivator "if I don't finish this house by winter me and my family will freeze to death." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Amazing transformation! The journal is awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 WOW! I would have given up a few times already. I've had small things to do around the house that made me want to quit. A complete gut? Nofa King Way! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 I like the fireplace a lot. Is the crane original? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, Tom King said: I like the fireplace a lot. Is the crane original? Yeah the sheer size of the main fireplace is just unbelievable. The beehive oven is still intact too. unfortunately the crane was nowhere to be found. I assume it was lost sometime over the years (centuries). The original mount is still intact in the masonry, and there is an antique restoration place a couple towns over where I was able to get a crane from the same period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Why didn't you sister the floor joists to level up the floor? I'm sure you must have had a reason, but I can't figure out the reason for the wedges. The crane looks good from here. I'd really like to see some up close pictures of the oven. Is it inside the firebox, or beside one? I have a job coming up building a reproduction 18th Century kitchen from scratch, and have been looking at all the old ones I can find. We have a very unusual crane that came out of a 17th Century German Inn that burned down, but that's the only part we are starting with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Tom King said: Why didn't you sister the floor joists to level up the floor? I'm sure you must have had a reason, but I can't figure out the reason for the wedges. The crane looks good from here. I'd really like to see some up close pictures of the oven. Is it inside the firebox, or beside one? I have a job coming up building a reproduction 18th Century kitchen from scratch, and have been looking at all the old ones I can find. We have a very unusual crane that came out of a 17th Century German Inn that burned down, but that's the only part we are starting with. Good point about sistering the joists - I should've mentioned that in my post. I did in fact sister joists to the new PT joists that had been installed as part of the structural fixes, but the problem was that all the original joists were rough hand hewn timber that was far too irregular to sister to. Maybe I could've through bolted them or something? But I thought the best and safest way would be to cut their wedges for those and then sister to the new straight joists. So my method was to get each sheet level using the wedges, then bring a sister joists underneath and just press it against the (now level) subfloor and nail it off. Probably could've done that same process in reverse but it seemed easier to let the wedges dictate the level instead of vice versa. Here are some pics of the beehive oven that I took this morning. Let me know if you'd like any specific angles or details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Thanks a lot! I see that the floor has been replaced at some point, but it would be kind of hard to mop that out between heating it with the fire, and putting food in it. I think if you wanted to use it, some modern fire clay mortar to flush up the joints should work okay. I would expect that steel lintel to be just a flat piece rather than an angle, but that's just a guess. Do you know if it has its own flue, or shares the flue with the fireplace? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, Tom King said: Thanks a lot! I see that the floor has been replaced at some point, but it would be kind of hard to mop that out between heating it with the fire, and putting food in it. I think if you wanted to use it, some modern fire clay mortar to flush up the joints should work okay. My mason said the same thing. He said he would leave it how it is for now, and to leave his card to the buyers and mention that if they'd like to really bring it up to working order to call him and he will come flush everything up and get it a little bit nicer. He has a lot of experience doing these original antique fireplaces and he said most people will use it once because it's a source of novelty but then realize what a PITA it is and never again. But he said he worked for one family that turned theirs into a full on pizza oven that they fire up every friday. Pretty cool. It shares the flue with the fireplace. All the flue passages had to be rebuilt from the top of the first floor through the (new) roof, which I'll explain in a forthcoming post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Great journal. Thanks for posting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Time to rip the roof off. Apologies in advance for the quality of the photos in some of my upcoming posts. At this point the professionals were framing the second floor during the day while I was at work, and this was December, so by the time I got home every day it was dark and there was obviously no electricity up there, so it was hard to get decent photos. In any case, here is the end of day 1 where they demolished the second floor. At this point I should say a few words about the chimney. The original plan with the mason was to wait until the second floor and roof had been framed, and then simply build up from the existing chimney to match the new height of the roof. But this presented a problem to the framers: the chimney was dead center along the width of the house, and it would prevent them from framing the gable ends on the deck. They would instead have to stick frame them in place. This would add significantly to the framing cost. In addition, when the second floor was removed and the chimney fully exposed, the chimney was WAY out of plumb, leaning significantly backward. It would cause us to have to move the upstairs hallway backward, screwing with the planned layout. Finally, and most significantly, the mason said he was nervous about adding any extra weight onto the existing chimney already leaning so much. So we decided to take it down and rebuild it with blocks from the second floor to the new roof height. Below is a pic of the original flue passages after we toook the chimney down. Pretty cool. The trapezoid shaped space on the right side of the photo was where the upstairs fireplace was. That also had its own (fourth) flue passage. And now a few notes on the engineering of the second floor. Obviously the big problem was that the house was way out of level, and the framers needed some way to start with a level deck. Further, nobody was willing to sign off (and thus assume liability) that the existing framing would support the weight of a full height second floor, even though I'm sure it would (there's a reason all these houses have been standing for three centuries). So the solution the engineer came up with was to basically build an entirely new floor system on top of the existing timber framing. So the timber framing would become non-structural and basically just support the plaster ceiling and nothing else. There would be a triple LVL running on top of the center summer beam that was supported at five points. A post on either end on the exterior wall, then three PSLs at strategic points along that center wall on the first floor that would carry down directly to a lally column or CMU pier in the basement/crawlspace. This LVL beam would be leveled using hardwood blocking at each of the point loads. Then, the new floor system would consist of standard 2x10 joists and simpson hangers from this LVL beam. They would attach to the rim joist which would be leveled along the exterior wall using PT 4x6's cut to the appropriate height. A picture is worth 1000 words, I know, so here you go: So each of those PT blocks you see under the rim joist on the second floor is bringing that rim joist level. Steel strapping was applied to resist racking forces, and then the sheathing would gusset it all together, making it rock solid. Pretty cool solution, IMO. Another issue that came up was the fact that the first floor exterior walls were obviously out of plumb. Actually one of them was dead plumb, and the other three were out by varying amounts. But the front wall was especially bad. So something had to be done about the fact that the second floor wall would be dead plumb while the first floor wall was way out, or the transition in the sheathing/siding would be obvious (or even impossible to do). So they cut wedges and applied them every 16" or so to make up the difference gradually. It amazed me how fast these guys worked. Before the project, I asked the framer how long it would take to erect a full weather tight shell (framing/sheathing/roof/windows/trim - basically everything except siding) and they said 3 weeks. I said no f-ing way. But sure enough, it took about 20 days in total (these guys worked 7 days a week). Here's one of the gable ends framed on the deck, and a pic of erecting it. Watching them erect the wall was just awesome. And nervewracking. My framer was telling me that he's done hundreds of gable ends, and it never made him nervous...until earlier this year he lent his wall jacks to another framer in the area who apparently had less experience, and that guy dumped a $12000 gable on the ground. This wall had windows and siding installed already. Now THAT is a bad day at work. Gables up: 4 walls, no roof: 4 walls and a roof: Next up: exterior trim and some (gasp) actual woodworking! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, bgreenb said: three PSLs...CMU pier LVL I'm familiar with...but not these. ? I'm assuming you guys didn't get a foot of snow while the second floor was under construction...what would have happened if you had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eric. said: LVL I'm familiar with...but not these. ? PSL = parallel strand lumber. Basically like an LVL but acting as a vertical support, used in place of studs where you need extra support. The ones we used were 3.5x7, so the same width as a stud. Versalam is a common brand name, and the one we used. CMU = concrete masonry unit, basically a rectangular concrete block. They build it into a 24"x24" pier in the crawlspace under the beam, where you don't have room for a lally column. 7 minutes ago, Eric. said: I'm assuming you guys didn't get a foot of snow while the second floor was under construction...what would have happened if you had? If we had, we would've gotten shovels out and just shoveled off the second floor deck. Wouldn't be a huge deal, just annoying. Snow would actually be preferable to rain because you can just brush/shovel snow off, whereas rain soaks everything. We actually did get a bunch of snow a few times, but after it was already weather tight. In fact the first storm we got was literally the day after they finished the roof sheathing and ice/water shield. That morning I asked the foreman what are the odds you get the roof weather tight before the storm tomorrow? He goes "sorry man but slim to none." It was 5* out that day and windy. When I got home from work the entire thing was done and ice/water shield covered. I called him and said "I thought you said slim to none?" He said "eh, I knew we'd finish it but didn't want to promise it and then have you be disappointed so I figured I'd cover myself. My guys absolutely hate me after today. I spent all day screaming at them, but we got it done." Now that's a contractor you want to work with - someone who knows the meaning of the phrase "under promise and over deliver." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 You can see one of the versalams to the right of the fireplace here: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Sounds like you ended up with a great contractor there. Lucky...so many turds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted May 19, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Just now, Eric. said: Sounds like you ended up with a great contractor there. Lucky...so many turds. He was absolutely awesome. The first contractor I called was a well known guy around here who did a couple of remodeling projects for friends of mine. He came and spent a lot of time with me at the beginning (for free) kind of assessing the house and coming up with a plan. When I finally asked him if he was interested in the job he said "I'll absolutely do the job for you, but I'm booking a year out, and you don't want me anyway. I'll charge you too much." So he said his former foreman had gone out on his own recently and would be a great candidate because he's young (my age) and hungry, and would definitely give me a better price. So I met with him and felt very comfortable. It was great working with a peer, age wise, and someone who was as driven to make this project a success as I was. Because he wasn't as busy as the big time guys, he spent a lot of time with me answering questions and giving advice on lots of things. And he definitely respected that I came at it with at least some skill and knowledge. Maybe my proudest moment in the whole project was a few weeks into his part of it, I was there on a saturday working with (well really alongside) them, and at the end of the day he was like "oh bri i almost forgot I brought you something" and it was one of his company's official hoodies. Absolutely awesome sweatshirt. One of his guys goes "what the hell man, when do we get brand new sweatshirts?" Boss man goes "I'll get you one when you work as hard as Brian does." I had a good rapport with all the guys, they felt pretty comfortable busting my balls. I had told them I work in finance, and one of them came up to me one time and was like "wow man, you frame pretty good for an accountant." Then on the aforementioned 5 degree day when they were doing the roof, I stopped by before work to make sure we were all on the same page about some stuff (which was part of my daily routine) and as I was leaving he goes "hey brian if i hear you complain about your boring desk job today I'm gonna throw you off the roof" LOL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, bgreenb said: One of his guys goes "what the hell man, when do we get brand new sweatshirts?" Boss man goes "I'll get you one when you work as hard as Brian does." LOL That's awesome. It's good to establish that kind of relationship right out of the gate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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