How Do You Work a Table Saw?

[Cheeset202]

Dolmetscher007,  don't think your question was answered on the threaded insert for the zci, yes they work well, I have built many for my saw, also don't forget the small screw or nail on the far end to prevent the insert from lifting up if you put pressure on the near end.  +1 on the gripper, I have 2 and use them a lot especially on small pieces.

[Guest Randy]

There are books, hard cover, soft cover, and online, about how to use a tablesaw and I suspect most of them would give you the basics. As for your other questions or techniques . . .

As has been said, resawing on the table saw is unsafe and generally is done on the bandsaw. If the piece is as wide as it is tall, I guess it's OK.  The bandsaw is still the best tool for resawing. The only way I'd ever do it on a tablesaw now is if the piece was wide enough and short enough that I'm essentially doing a normal rip rather than a resaw.

When ripping on a tablesaw, the safest position is out of the way of the board being pushed through the blade in case of kickback or when ripping narrow pieces, the possibility of a piece shooting out backwards.

A long time ago I read a lot more about woodworking than I do now and remember reading that ripping anything less than 6" wide between the blade and the fence requires some sort of protection like a push stick. I now use the Grr-ripper from Microjig. It makes ripping wood of any width safe (as well as being useful on a jointer or even on a router table).

I'd get a book on tablesaws. The Tablesaw Book by Kenny Mehler is good. Check on shopwoodwhorking.com (which is Popular Woodworking's product site). I'm sure they have some. Jim Tolpin has books on tablesaw use, I think. Any of these will likely give you some basics and, if you're a voracious reader, get them all. They generally all have tips that are unique to their books because everybody's work habits are a little different.

[Dolmetscher007]

44 minutes ago, Cheeset202 said:

Dolmetscher007,  don't think your question was answered on the threaded insert for the zci, yes they work well, I have built many for my saw, also don't forget the small screw or nail on the far end to prevent the insert from lifting up if you put pressure on the near end.  +1 on the gripper, I have 2 and use them a lot especially on small pieces.

I am looking into making a killer ZCI. I would like to talk more about the hex screws. I live nowhere near a Rockler or woodworking shop, and the mouth-breathers that work at Home Depot around here would certainly not be able to answer my questions. Basically, if I get a piece of 1/2" ply, like everyone seems to suggest... I would like to pick up some threaded inserts so that I can drill 4 holes for hex screw "feet" to go, so that I can flatten the insert with the table. I have seen "threaded inserts" in YouTube videos, but I've never bought them, so I don't know what to buy exactly. 

When it comes to buying threaded inserts, does  ' 1/4" threaded insert '  mean that the length of the insert is 1/4", or does that mean the diameter of the insert's opening is 1/4"? For a 1/2" sheet of ply, keeping in mind that the hex screws must be flush or below the surface of the plywood, what length insert should one buy? And finally... where can I find these tiny threaded inserts and matching hex screws?

 

Michael 

[Cheeset202]

You can probably buy the threaded inserts online from most of the woodworking dealers, I bought some online from Woodcraft. The 1/4" refers to the hole opening and they will designate a thread per inch number as well which you need for the set screw.  I would recommend going with a 6-32, takes a number 6 set screw with 32 threads per inch.  The 1/4 inch would most likely be too big as you need to drill a hole close to the outer diameter of the threaded insert. I checked Woodcraft and item 159287 is what will work for your ZCI.  The box stores will probably carry them in the hardware section or the smaller hardware stores like Ace or True value usually have them in the speciality hardware bins, usually where the nuts, bolts and screws are located.  They should carry the set screws you will need as well.  

[wtnhighlander]

Using threaded inserts, on what is essentially a sacrificial part, seems excessive to me. With the appropriate hole in the wood, the insert will thead itself in. If you wear out the threads by adjustements over time, you will likely have worn out the kerf slot and need a new one, anyway.

[Eric.]

6 hours ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

I am looking into making a killer ZCI. I would like to talk more about the hex screws. I live nowhere near a Rockler or woodworking shop, and the mouth-breathers that work at Home Depot around here would certainly not be able to answer my questions. Basically, if I get a piece of 1/2" ply, like everyone seems to suggest... I would like to pick up some threaded inserts so that I can drill 4 holes for hex screw "feet" to go, so that I can flatten the insert with the table. I have seen "threaded inserts" in YouTube videos, but I've never bought them, so I don't know what to buy exactly. 

When it comes to buying threaded inserts, does  ' 1/4" threaded insert '  mean that the length of the insert is 1/4", or does that mean the diameter of the insert's opening is 1/4"? For a 1/2" sheet of ply, keeping in mind that the hex screws must be flush or below the surface of the plywood, what length insert should one buy? And finally... where can I find these tiny threaded inserts and matching hex screws?

 

Michael 

 

Not threaded inserts, allen set screws.  Drill a pilot hole exactly the way you would for any other screw (drill bit the diameter of the shank, not the threads), then just drive in the set screws.  Takes ten seconds.  You don't need an insert, that is absolutely unnecessary.

Home Depot sells them.  They're in the little multi-drawer bins right next door to all the nuts/bolts.  That's where I buy them.  There's a million sizes but here's proof that they have them:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-8-mm-x-12-mm-Alloy-Allen-Socket-Set-Screw-82948/100338171

[over40pirate]

Just wondering, if you consider ripping a 1 x 3" board into 1/4 x 3" strips, on a ts, a resaw?

 I do it and don't see a problem.

 

[Marmotjr]

5 minutes ago, over40pirate said:

Just wondering, if you consider ripping a 1 x 3" board into 1/4 x 3" strips, on a ts, a resaw?

 I do it and don't see a problem.

 

Nope, it's just a TS cut IMO.  I believe when we are referring to a resaw cut in this thread, we are referring to  rough lumber that needs milling, and may have some tension in it that will get released when you make the cut. 

[Eric.]

2 hours ago, over40pirate said:

Just wondering, if you consider ripping a 1 x 3" board into 1/4 x 3" strips, on a ts, a resaw?

That's a resaw.  And very dangerous.  Especially the second cut where it's no longer 1" but closer to 5/8".  Not to mention, terrible for your blade.

[Cheeset202]

I do agree the threaded insert is not necessary and drilling a pilot hole and threading in a set screw will work.  I disagree that the ZCI is a sacrificial part, once you make one for your particular blade it will be no different than the stock insert for your saw.  I have many in my shop for the primary blade and one for each of the primary dado stacks.  I have had them for years!

[Dolmetscher007]

1 hour ago, Cheeset202 said:

I do agree the threaded insert is not necessary and drilling a pilot hole and threading in a set screw will work.  I disagree that the ZCI is a sacrificial part, once you make one for your particular blade it will be no different than the stock insert for your saw.  I have many in my shop for the primary blade and one for each of the primary dado stacks.  I have had them for years!

Okay... I get it about the set screws. In my mind, when I asked that questions, I was thinking that I'd be screwing the set screws in every time I use the insert, but really, I will probably set them once, and never have to set them again unless humidity or something changes something. So, threaded inserts are off the table (get it?!?)

I also don't think a ZCI is a throwaway part, but it is, according to Webster, "sacrificial," in that you won't be using that piece of wood for anything else after that. 

[Eric.]

Every piece of wood is sacrificial in that regard.

But yeah, they're not throwaway.  I made a batch of ZCIs about five years ago and I'm still using the first one I installed.  I also made a 45* and I'll swap out for that one from time to time when ripping skinny bevels.  I just use my factory dado insert for dadoes.  It's impossible to keep a dado insert as a ZCI unless you use the same stack arrangement every time.  And dado blades have high ATB so a ZCI is not nearly as important to maintain a crisp edge.  Plus there are no off-cuts to get sucked into the opening and make missiles out of.

[Dolmetscher007]

Alright Eric... you A**hole!!! 

Drum Sander... You were right!
Band Saw... You were right!
No re-sawing on a Table Saw... You were right!
No need for threaded inserts... You were right!
And I just watched the promo videos for the GrrRipper... You were right! I just ordered one on Amazon.

Thanks Bud!!! 

[CandorLush]

I try to use my TS as little as possible since it doesn't have a splitter or riving knife and the kickback would go into a sliding glass door. When I do use it, I will put a sheet of plywood on an angle to hopefully deflect any issues I have into a wall. It likely will be replaced soon.

 

[SirNot]

7 minutes ago, CandorLush said:

I try to use my TS as little as possible since it doesn't have a splitter or riving knife and the kickback would go into a sliding glass door. When I do use it, I will put a sheet of plywood on an angle to hopefully deflect any issues I have into a wall. It likely will be replaced soon.

 

I had my first kickback a few months ago and it scared the bejesus out of me.  Hit me right in my gut.  I know what I did wrong, and the first thing I did once I caught my breath was to go out and pick up a zero clearance insert, the Microjig splitter and a Grr-ripper.  I won't make a cut ever again without them.

[Dolmetscher007]

3 minutes ago, SirNot said:

I had my first kickback a few months ago and it scared the bejesus out of me.  Hit me right in my gut.  I know what I did wrong, and the first thing I did once I caught my breath was to go out and pick up a zero clearance insert, the Microjig splitter and a Grr-ripper.  I won't make a cut ever again without them.

I had a kickback once. I don't even know how it happened. I just know I was lucky enough to be standing off to the left enough that when this 1/2" strip of 3/4" plywood came shooting back, it missed by love handle by mm's. I had to pry the damn thing out of the wall behind me where it has gone into the sheetrock and would have kept going if it hadn't hit the bricks on the other side and split into a million pieces. 

 

[Eric.]

I think back on some of the things I did on my Dewalt contractor saw before I knew anything and I'm amazed I still have ten fingers.  Knowledge is power.

[bleedinblue]

I consider my tablesaw the most dangerous thing I own.  I have daytime nightmares of watching my hand get sucked into the blade every time I walk into the shop.  One day I'll get a sawstop...though I also think it would be awesome to not have a ts,  just a fantastic bandsaw.  That'll never happen though.

[Tom King]

I didn't read to the end of the thread, but am making a comment about threaded inserts.

The threaded inserts come in two different thread pitches on the outside.  Coarse for softwood, and finer for hardwood.   I wouldn't expect either to hold as well in 1/2" plywood (even Baltic Birch) as the threads on a set screw would.   You only need to adjust them once, so why bother with inserts?

Short answer: Skip the threaded inserts.

I use threaded inserts for stops on old windows so that the sash can be taken out later without being destructive to the stops.   They are kind of a pain to put in the old Heart Pine that the old jambs are typically made from.  I made a jig with hardened drill guides to drill the holes, and it's still impossible to get every one inserted perfectly square (not that it matters for making a ZCI, but they are no fun to work with anyway).

I have a toolbox that says "Threading".   It doesn't get opened for making ZCI's.

One of my dedicated routers has a pattern bit in it.  I just double stick tape some plywood to an old metal insert that's not too beat up, clamp the router upside down, and run a few when I run out.  I reuse the set screws from the old inserts because they're the easiest to find.

It probably takes a few thousand lineal feet to wear one out, but they do wear out.

[drzaius]

Another reason not to use threaded inserts is that if you size the hole right & drive the set screw directly into the wood, it will be a tight enough fit that you don't have to worry about it moving.

[Marmotjr]

14 hours ago, Eric. said:

That's a resaw.  And very dangerous.  Especially the second cut where it's no longer 1" but closer to 5/8".  Not to mention, terrible for your blade.

I'm obviously missing something in this.  I'm just picturing a 1x3 being ripped down lengthwise.  What else is a TS for if not this? 

[Dolmetscher007]

***UPDATE***

Zero Clearance Insert complete!!! 

I went to Home Creepo and bought some set screws. I did break with what some of you guys said, and I bought a $6 piece of 1/2" red oak. I know you guys said that plywood makes a better ZCI, and I imagine you are right. But, it was right there, and easy to grab and... cheaper... and well, I just grabbed it. When I got home, I traced he existing insert onto the board. I clamped it to my bench, and cut it out with my jig saw. I have to say... there is nothing... and I mean nothing... more dangerous feeling in your hand than a high power jig saw cutting hard wood when the base isn't always able to ride along a complete flat surface. Jesus!

I don't have a nice edge sander, so I had to clamp my belt sander to my bench upside down. I clamped the shit out of it and tried to wiggle it loose to make sure it's solidly clamped before I turned it on. Then I was able to fine tune the edges and fit it into the table saw throat. I then drilled a 1" diameter finger hole so that I could get the damn thing out once I set it in place. I then took four little pieces of painters tape, and put a dot in the center of each, and placed those pieces of tape, sticky-side up, on the four "feet" of the table saw throat. When it back up, I had my four places to drill for the set screws. Drilled em out (too narrow at first, and had to re-drill with the next size up drill bit) but then the set screwss went in snug and sweet like they came from a factory that way. 

I set it in place, and used an allen wrench and a straight edge to set it up perfectly. I set the fence over the far right side of the insert to hold it down, and I clamped a 3/4" board to the fence just to hold it down more and to be safe. Turned on the table saw, and raised the blade. Bammm!!! ZCI. 

It probably sounds like nothing to you guys. But it's a big deal to me. Feels good to talk talk talk about something, and then go get it done! 

Thanks guys! I love this forum!

 

 

[Dolmetscher007]

14 minutes ago, Marmotjr said:

I'm obviously missing something in this.  I'm just picturing a 1x3 being ripped down lengthwise.  What else is a TS for if not this? 

If you are taking a 3/4" s4s board that is 3" wide, and laying it flat on a table saw, and ripping the board lengthwise, then that is not re-sawing. 

If you are taking the same board, and flipping it up so that the 3/4" edge is on the table saw face, and the 3" wide side is riding along the fence, and you are slicing the board into "veneers"... that is re-sawing. 

Basically, like Eric said, if the edge of the board that is touching the table is narrower than the dimension of the edge that is riding along the fence... then that is re-sawing, and dangerous on a table saw. 

[Marmotjr]

3 minutes ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

If you are taking a 3/4" s4s board that is 3" wide, and laying it flat on a table saw, and ripping the board lengthwise, then that is not re-sawing. 

If you are taking the same board, and flipping it up so that the 3/4" edge is on the table saw face, and the 3" wide side is riding along the fence, and you are slicing the board into "veneers"... that is re-sawing. 

Basically, like Eric said, if the edge of the board that is touching the table is narrower than the dimension of the edge that is riding along the fence... then that is re-sawing, and dangerous on a table saw. 

Well, that's a crosscut, but very dangerous.

[Dolmetscher007]

Just now, Marmotjr said:

Well, that's a crosscut, but very dangerous.

Nah... Sorry my man, but a cross cut would be if you took the 3/4" board that is 3" wide, and let's say 24" long... and you turned the board perpendicular to the saw blade, and ran it across the blade "across the grain." That's a cross-cut.