ClareA

The Cons and Pros of a Lacquer finish.

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I have used this finish once for a refurbished sculpted wood piece for a client. I loved the way each layer melted into the other layer, much like the dewaxed shellac I had used for sealing knotty pine. What are the pros and cons? When is it best to use? All the jazz on Lacquer vs, other products. Thank you.

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Lacquer is toxic, and also requires solvent (lacquer thinner) to clean equipment afterwards. I sprayed lacquer for a short while, but found the trade off for clean up and disposal was not worth the switch from water based poly.

That being said, it's easy to spray, cost effective, and gives excellent results.

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Lacquer is most usually sprayed, which requires having the right equipment.  It also introduces flammable fumes, so you need to have the right environment - either a proper spray booth that can evacuate the fumes, or a place to spray outside.

 

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I used the lacquer spray paint in a can for the project. There is not much product in the cans. I sprayed it outside and I saw how much product was blowing out into the atmosphere. A poor bird that must have been nesting above my screened porch started wailing from the fumes. I felt bad. I went and bought a can of the brush on for future use. With refurbishing, what wood and projects does it tend to do better on vs other finishes? 

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4 minutes ago, ClareA said:

I used the lacquer spray paint in a can for the project. There is not much product in the cans. I sprayed it outside and I saw how much product was blowing out into the atmosphere. A poor bird that must have been nesting above my screened porch started wailing from the fumes. I felt bad. I went and bought a can of the brush on for future use. With refurbishing, what wood and projects does it tend to do better on vs other finishes? 

make sure to wear a respirator, even when spraying outside.

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I use Generals water based laquer.Very nice stuff it's very clear builds up fast and can be sprayed or brushed.I use very high quality foam brush.

Since its water based I don't have to worry about exploding myself.But I still wear a respirator to prevent Drain Bamage.:wacko:

Aj

 

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Most lacquers are pretty easy to get great looking results quickly. Imo its a great choice for production environments where quick turn arounds are essential. If youre spraying 2 coats on 50 cabinet doors in a spray booth, a few minutes to clean your guns is trivial. But if youre a woodworker in a small shop making a single piece of furniture it may not be worth it for you to deal with the fumes and the cleanup.

 

For small trinkets i love using a good ol' rattle can lacquer finish. Beyond that it hasnt been worth it for me yet. Especially here in California where its getting harder and harder to find.

 

Researching on the web may lead to greater headaches than youll get from the lacquer itself. So many types, each with loyal advocates claiming their choice is the best. As mentioned above, youre just gonna have to try some.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

 

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On 6/7/2017 at 9:09 AM, Pug said:

A good book on the topic is Flexner's highly regarded "understanding wood finishing".

I will read it. I am also an oil painter on canvas. I love reading an actual book, not online.I will look for it. Thank you. I have quite a collection for painting. 

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On 6/7/2017 at 9:28 AM, Aj3 said:

I use Generals water based laquer.Very nice stuff it's very clear builds up fast and can be sprayed or brushed.I use very high quality foam brush.

Since its water based I don't have to worry about exploding myself.But I still wear a respirator to prevent Drain Bamage.:wacko:

Aj

 

There is one store here that sells or will order General products. I have enjoyed using their gel based stains, esp. if I need to add grain with a graining tool or by hand. I have not heard of a solvent free Lacquer. I brought my can of counter paint to a specialty store who stocks Benjamin Moore and they kindly remixed it a different color and said it had some nasty chemicals in it and recommended I not use xylene (they mentioned it was nasty stuff) and to discard foam rolls and brushes when finished. I have 3 very good synthetic brushes. I am hoping my cheaper ones will work smoothly for corners. I do not want to ruin the good brushes. I have mineral spirits and denatured alcohol for clean up. 

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On 6/7/2017 at 8:29 AM, Jfitz said:

Lacquer is most usually sprayed, which requires having the right equipment.  It also introduces flammable fumes, so you need to have the right environment - either a proper spray booth that can evacuate the fumes, or a place to spray outside.

 

I will invest in one when I have the extra funds. I have spent so much and the products and cost adds up quickly!

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On June 7, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Aj3 said:

I use Generals water based laquer.Very nice stuff it's very clear builds up fast and can be sprayed or brushed.I use very high quality foam brush.

Since its water based I don't have to worry about exploding myself.But I still wear a respirator to prevent Drain Bamage.:wacko:

Aj

 

I didn't think general finishes had a lacquer?  If they do, that's good to know.

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On 6/8/2017 at 11:01 AM, wdwerker said:

If it's water based and they call it lacquer they are being very loose with the term. It produces a lacquer like finish but it doesn't burn in or melt into the previous coat. I use a pro grade water based finish that they call a lacquer but I've read a lot about the chemistry & use details and it isn't a lacquer by any stretch of the imagination. Having said that General Finishes water based products are quite good, probably some of the best "over the counter" stuff around. 

Temperature & humidity do affect water bourne finishes. They are not "water based " , water is just a carrier to allow you to spray or brush it on. As the water evaporates little spheres of the actual finish melt/flow/combine with a slower evaporating solvent like a glycol ether or complex alcohol type stuff. Turbine HVLP sprayers heat up the air ( which reduces the humidity too) and the finish dries faster. Thin coats dry faster too. Brushed coats dry slower. 

I've been spraying waterbourne finishes for over 20 years and they have come a long way. An aggressive fire marshall got me on this path and not having to buy solvents to clean up , lack of complaints about the smell and many other benefits have kept me using the stuff.

Interesting, so you are saying their is a difference between water-based and waterbourne? After using the AllPro finish, for myself, it was superb compared to other water-based poly-acrylic finishes. But, it says water-borne not water-based. Is this why it apply smoother? Please explain more. Thank you. On another note, I worked with a strong based xylene epoxy paint last night outside with respirator. I was covered head to toe, respiratory, heavy gloves. The project went well until the excessive sweat caused the suction seal to not work properly on resp. allowing the fumes in and I could smell it and started tasting it. I believe the fumes (heavier than air) were then stuck inside my resp. mask which was doing the opposite of helping at that point and thankfully I was almost done. I went inside and peeling off the mask and being hit with air conditioning, fresh cold air was a relief. 

IMG_20170516_205738770.jpg

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I am not a chemist, but I believe all "water based" finishes are actually water borne.  They are waterborne because the water is just a carrier - it brings the finish to the wood, evaporates, and leaves behind the resin which then coalesces and forms a film.  Hence waterborne.  Water is the carrier, but not the base  

Oil based varnishes are entirely different.  The oil is boiled with a resin to create an entirely new substance that cures hard when exposed to oxygen.  The oil does not evaporate - it hardens because it has been modified with with resin.  Yes, there are thinners that help make the finish easier to apply and those do evaporate.  But they are not part of the finish. 

So in other words, when you apply a water finish, all of the water evaporates and is no longer part of the finish. 

With an oil polyurethane, the oil is always there (but in a different form.  It is actually a film of plastic).  

Here is a more lengthy article. 

https://thefinishingstore.com/blogs/news/how-to-choose-a-finish-part-ii

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1 hour ago, wdwerker said:

I think latex house paint is water based. 

According to Bob Flexner latex paints work the same was as waterborne finishes.  they are coalescing finishes and the water is just the carrier.  So that would make them water borne

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Always meant to read his book, just never got around to it. Ya gotta keep your eyes and mind open, learn something everyday !

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I used Pre-cat Lacquer for the first time on a desk project recently.  I have a cheap $99 Rockler HVLP and it sprayed it fine.  I'm a hobbyist not an expert and only been using a sprayer for about 2 years now.  for this particular project I sprayed 2 coats of dewaxed shellac, sanded it down smooth, glazed with a walnut gel stain quickly wiping it off, then top coated with Pre-Cat Lacquer.  4 coats sanding down with steal wool between coats, except for final coat.

In my not so expert opinion, I prefer lacquer due to it's quick dry time, ease of use with sprayer.  Ventilation and resp mask are a must though.  I love the smell of it but prefer to keep my lungs healthy.

Here are some pictures of my results and it's been holding up well to my brother's abuse so far.

HendrixFront.jpg

HendrixBack.jpg

HendrixSide.jpg

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On 6/12/2017 at 9:55 AM, salphonso said:

I used Pre-cat Lacquer for the first time on a desk project recently.  I have a cheap $99 Rockler HVLP and it sprayed it fine.  I'm a hobbyist not an expert and only been using a sprayer for about 2 years now.  for this particular project I sprayed 2 coats of dewaxed shellac, sanded it down smooth, glazed with a walnut gel stain quickly wiping it off, then top coated with Pre-Cat Lacquer.  4 coats sanding down with steal wool between coats, except for final coat.

In my not so expert opinion, I prefer lacquer due to it's quick dry time, ease of use with sprayer.  Ventilation and resp mask are a must though.  I love the smell of it but prefer to keep my lungs healthy.

Here are some pictures of my results and it's been holding up well to my brother's abuse so far.

HendrixFront.jpg

HendrixBack.jpg

HendrixSide.jpg

Beautiful Work!

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I was trying to figure the different between the water-based products. In this pic one says water-based oil modified. How do they make water-based with solvents? 

PART_1497397764218_IMG_20170613_194655138.jpg

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I think "water based" is a misnomer. The polyurathane, at least, is an oil based product, but mixed into a water carrier for application.

Such products should be refered to as "water-borne".

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Any poly is an oil based resin and will have a yellowing affect to some extent. Moisture curing polyurethane is a pro finish that is extremely durable. I haven't used it because it's solvent based.

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