My first table-top glue up, and it's looking to be a real mess

[Eric.]

2 minutes ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

Nope!

6/4 Alder: $5.99 bd/ft
6/4 Red Oak: $6.99 bd/ft
6/4 Cherry: $7.99 bd/ft
6/4 Southern Yellow Pine: $1.15 bd/ft

The table I'm building will cost, in total, $47.50 + tax (55 bd/ft)
The same table in the other woods...

Alder: $329.45
Red Oak: $384.45
Cherry: $439.45
My table: $47.50

I mean... come on! If I can use SYP to build even passable furniture... you're G* D* right I'm going to look into it a little bit more than just being told "Can't do it." on a website. 

 

 

You need to find a new dealer.

And ultimately, who cares.  Spend some money.

[Coop]

If you're hellbent on using the materials you have, and I don't blame you, take a couple of hints from someone that has and still does not so bright stuff myself. I've found that pocket screws, regardless of how well you clamp the boards, even using Kreg's vise clamps, will offset the two boards ever so slightly, so put away the screws. 

As others have said, you can't have enough clamps, but shouldn't need a gillion when edge gluing your top. If money is a current problem, go to Harbor Freight and buy three or four 3/4" pipe clamps and to HD for the lengths of pipe that you will need. Also, when at HF, pick you up 6-8 F clamps. Use these with some 2x2's as cauls. Be sure and apply some clear packing tape on the side of the caul that touches the glueup. 

Also quoted from above, save up you nickels for some good stuff like cherry, maple and walnut, maybe just for a small project. Such a pleasure and you'll never go back to syp unless you're framing a house. Good luck to ya bud. 

 

[bleedinblue]

Also, for cheap clamps for panel glue ups, search the Renaissance Woodworkers blog for panel clamps.  He made some using cheap (and I do mean cheap) hardware from the box store.  You can even use 2x4s to build them. 

[Guest]

Well I skipped over most of the debate 

These boards are 12' long and 10" wide.  I could have closed the entire joint with a single clamp.  

So you should be fine with 3 clamps.  go buy one more and you will be good.  

[RichardA]

What they said. Your asking for a learning experience, That's good,  But it's why we're here to offer up a better way to learn any part of the collective knowledge is here, just ask, you will get answered. Down the road ,you'll be helping out newcomers to the gift of working wood.     You couldn't find a better resource than here.

[benny27]

1 minute ago, Eric. said:

 

Let's just make it clear for anyone who might stumble across this thread at any point in the future...

Pockets screws have no place in a panel.  Period, end of story.  It's improper construction and should not be advised no way no how never ever.  Learn the proper way to build a panel and you'll be a better woodworker.  Keep doing things the wrong way and you'll never improve.  Panel glue-ups are fundamental and not that difficult with the correct tools and a little practice.

Yes that is the wrong way to do it.

But he only has 2 clamps.

 

How long is this table going to be?

[Woodenskye]

I just read this entire thread, and am kinda shaking my head.  In the end, build what you want, whether you take the sound advise offered or not is up to you.  Some additional thoughts:

1) don't use pocket screws on the underside of the panel, better idea is to use dominos, dowels, biscuits or another lose tenon for alignment

2) if you really plan to take 2x material down to 3/4 to 1" thickness, you are wasting money and your estimate for hardwoods is off

3) if you need more clamps you can modify the HF aluminum bar clamps, but good milling will make 20 clamps unnecessary as Mike showed.

 

[Llama]

1 hour ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

"Can't do it." on a website. 

This is a lot more than just a website... Not a singular point of reference as you may find in a blog. I have learned a TON since joining this forum over 4 years ago. 

Believe it or not, we aren't here to give you a hard time. As much as you may choose to believe otherwise. We speak from experience, and talk about best practices. Can you make a table out of 2x4s... sure.. is it cheaper than cherry... obviously. I don't want to live in a world where cherry is less expensive than a 2x4 from home depot.

[Dhankx]

Lots of comments that I mostly read. Newbie here. I too started with Kreg jig but after getting frustrated with my perfectly clamped joins getting moved after I drilled a screw in I realized just glue + time = better. I got 4 nice bar clamps and told myself to glue 1 board a day (which also helps make my more expensive wood project hit the wallet better) and I'm much happier with the results. 

[Dolmetscher007]

1 minute ago, Llama said:

Believe it or not, we aren't here to give you a hard time. As much as you may choose to believe otherwise. 

It's not just this website. Connecting with people on the internet has become just a big ol' ball of numb tactless negative brain-vomit. I have posted questions on this website maybe 10 times or so. Most of the guys on here have a genuinely helpful and positive tone, and even if they think my question or idea is totally off, they explain it to me in a way that they would explain it to another man in real life, with manners, and a common respect. But of the ten questions I've posted on here, 100% of the time, usually within just a few minutes of me posting my question, some curmudgeons grouch fires off a comment that rarely actually addresses a solution, but instead just barks at me about how it was a stupid question to begin with. And if I ask some clarifying question(s), because I really would like to learn, some other hunchback chimes in, also with no positive steps towards my question, but just to tell me that my question is stupid, and that if I don't want you guys' sage advice, then I can just go fire myself into a brick wall. The tone blows. And I know that if we were standing on aisle 10 of a hardware store and I asked the same questions, no one would respond so salty. It's just lame internet courage. 

Anyway... I had a bad glue up, and a shit day. Just didn't need the extra sand in my ass on top of it. 

 

[Eric.]

No one is trying to be a jerk...it's just that this very problem has been covered ten thousand times on this very forum.  Construction lumber moves like crazy, and pocket screws are no good for panel glue ups.  It's not like anyone is picking on YOU...it's just been beat to death already.  There's a reason you're getting a universal reaction to your question...it's not a good way to build.

And not to dig in even deeper, but it's exceptionally frustrating when someone comes asking for advice, then you give them advice...and then they ignore it or argue with you.  You wanna know why things went badly?  We told you why.  Crappy wood and crappy joinery technique.  If you don't want to accept it, that's fine...but don't act like we're pricks for telling you the truth.

[Llama]

My first comment was directed solely at the attitude you brought to this conversation when you made a snarky comment. You asked your question, Eric and others clearly outlined where you went wrong. You then decided to say we wanted you to fail.

Internet courage? You are the one throwing names around because you are somehow offended by good advice. I just don't understand it! Trust me, you are not the first person to make a table out of 2x4s. All wood moves, construction lumber moves more. You cannot escape this. So.. here we are again. Eric and I are the jerks. Whatever man.. go make your table.

Try more screws next time.

[Dolmetscher007]

11 minutes ago, Eric. said:

And not to dig in even deeper, but it's exceptionally frustrating when someone comes asking for advice, then you give them advice...and then they ignore it or argue with you.  You wanna know why things went badly?  We told you why.  Crappy wood and crappy joinery technique.  If you don't want to accept it, that's fine...but don't act like we're pricks for telling you the truth.

My man... if you actually feel frustration because a stranger posted a question on an internet forum... maybe click on to another thread?

And I never ignored you or argued with you. My whole family is coming to visit me in my new house, and I do not have a kitchen table. I also have zero money at the moment due to some unforeseen financial problems. I looked at folding tables at Sam's, and the cheapest one is $89. I do not have $89, but what I do have is five 2x12 in my garage. Oh, and a f* Kregg Jig that I'd like throw off a cliff. So, I'm making lemonade over here. I'm not arguing with some old stranger on the internet. I just wanted you to either help me or... just move along. 

[Eric.]

12 minutes ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

My man... if you actually feel frustration because a stranger posted a question on an internet forum... maybe click on to another thread?

And I never ignored you or argued with you. My whole family is coming to visit me in my new house, and I do not have a kitchen table. I also have zero money at the moment due to some unforeseen financial problems. I looked at folding tables at Sam's, and the cheapest one is $89. I do not have $89, but what I do have is fixe 2x12 in my garage. Oh, and a f* Kregg Jig that I'd like throw off a cliff. So, I'm making lemonade over here. I'm not arguing with some old stranger on the internet. I just wanted you to either help me or... just move along. 

I'm not frustrated when someone asks a question, I'm frustrated when someone asks for advice but then kicks back against it if it's not what they wanted to hear.  We get that a lot...not satisfied until the self-fulfilling prophecy is fulfilled.  It's irritating, that's all.  I realize you really, really want construction lumber to be an acceptable option for fine furniture because it's so cheap...but that just ain't reality, sorry to say.  It makes great stud walls, though.   The "DIY woodworker" movement is not doing new woodworkers any favors.  I know there's a lot of youtubers who continue to use it...but they shouldn't be.  And those youtubers are best left ignored.

My advice was to not use construction lumber or pocket screws.  I mean that's the best advice I can give.  If you want me to lie to you, I guess I could just click on another thread because it ain't in me to lie.  I always go into a thread assuming people want the best information we're capable of offering.  That's what I tried to give you.  Didn't mean to put sand in your ass over it.

If you're in a pinch for a table to eat at this week, I guess the best you can do is move forward with the build and consider it a teachable moment.  Chances are it's gonna keep moving on you when you bring it inside.  Use it, then rebuild it.  Over and out.

[bleedinblue]

The curmudgeon becomes much more tolerable when you realize that the curmudgeon is almost always right, there's a reason for the tone, and it's nothing personal.

I've been a part of many forums in the past several years and this truly is one of, if not the best.  You'll learn a ton here if you don't get your ego bruised in your first few posts.  I know I certainly made a few poorly thought out posts when I first joined that were met with some eye rolls.  Stick around and you'll see that even the curmudgeons are really good guys.  Otherwise, or in addition I suppose, there are a lot of Youtube channels aimed at woodworking with crappy wood construction lumber and limited tools and budgets. 

[Eric.]

Oh...and I'm not that old.  That's my grandpop in the avatar.  My woodworking grandpop.

[Llama]

Costco has folding tables for $50... We bought two for our July 4th party, and they aren't bad.

I get the not having money to do things the right way situation. It sucks. Sorry man... Try to make this one work for the family coming over, and make something that will last when you have the money to do so.

[jplemons]

I have an idea so that you can put up a quick, temporary kitchen table with what you have -- take your 2x12s and line them up the best you can. On the underside, run some smaller boards across it and screw those to the boards. Presto -- makeshift temporary panel.

Or, do what we did when I was a kid and had no kitchen table -- go find the biggest empty wood spool you can, like the ones power companies use for their cables, lug it home, toss a table cloth over it and presto -- a functional round table. 

[Llama]

5 minutes ago, jplemons said:

spool

We had a spool in our backyard for years! HAHA! I think someone named Foxworthy has a joke about spools....   

[Llama]

40 minutes ago, jplemons said:

spool

 

Found it!

 

[Pondhockey]

1 hour ago, Dolmetscher007 said:

My man...

My boy...

You bring incredible attitude for someone who knows so little and wants so much.  Lose the attitude.

[Marmotjr]

I understand you've had a rough day.  We get it.  We've all been there.

And yeah, there's a few people who give really good info, but in a very frank and in your face sort of way.  Tends to rub people the wrong way, but if you get past the roughness, there's quality in those words they speak.

But let's look at your situation.  You need a table.  You don't have funds for "proper" materials.  You do have some materials that will possibly work, but only for a short while.   Let's run with those.  At the very least, you can learn and hone some techniques for use on a quality table next year when this thing starts to go to hell.  By then it will be properly dry and make for a good bonfire, but in the mean time, you have a usable table.

It was mentioned at least once (maybe only once) try dowels.   The amount you'll need only runs a few bucks at the hardware store.  Pick up a couple lengths.   Make your self a little dowling jig, and line those panels up. 

And we know this thing is gonna warp and twist over time.  It's what this type lumber is known for.  So let's break all the rules of wood movement and use that pocket hole jig to screw the top down to the aprons, and probably a few cross pieces under neath to hold the whole thing in place and flat for as long as we can before it explodes. 

Mill up some nice legs, maybe add a slight taper for experience and a bit of aesthetics.  Plane or sand that top down to a smooth surface, and then finish with poly.  Bam, you have a working kitchen table for the next 3-12 months. 

At this point, it's not fine wood working anymore, it's Making.  This forum really isn't setup for that kind of product, for better or worse, so the replies you are got are in that mindset.  But sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. 

At the very least, you'll have picked up some very valuable experience in  what tool's you need before attempting this again and what skills you'll need to get better at. 

[Eric.]

Not to completely derail this thread (even though it's basically resolved IMO)...

I just went back and read through the entire thing trying to find exactly where the grouchy abrasive curmudgeon prick reared his ugly head...and I'm sorry but I couldn't find it.  Can someone point me to something I wrote that was offensive in any way?  Because I was basically called an asshole, and I totally don't understand why.  Thanks.

[Marmotjr]

22 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Not to completely derail this thread (even though it's basically resolved IMO)...

I just went back and read through the entire thing trying to find exactly where the grouchy abrasive curmudgeon prick reared his ugly head...and I'm sorry but I couldn't find it.  Can someone point me to something I wrote that was offensive in any way?  Because I was basically called an asshole, and I totally don't understand why.  Thanks.

I think you were quite tame for how you can be Eric (Not a knock on you, and we've had this thread before, so let's not go there), but when he's had the type of day he's had, the slightest transgression, perceived or real, can set a person off.  I know it can for me. 

The guy is in a tight bind here, and we've all leaned in to him about poor material choice etc etc, so now let's help him find a way to make it work. 

[Pwk5017]

Truly sat down to help this guy, but after two pages deep, there arent enough beers in a case to deal with this....

 

It sounds like the OP had a bunch of narrow boards, which can complicate glue ups. A couple things to help in the future:

• You may not need a million clamps, but you do need more than 1-2. 
• As with #1, you needed cauls to help control your narrow boards, and cauls require clamps
• Next time you mill boards for a table top, glue them in the same day. I wont even start on a big panel if im not going to have it in clamps within an hour or two of milling.