Quality Brand Big Power Tools and recommendations


bushwacked
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1 minute ago, woodbutcher said:

Cant for the life of me decide which I want. I dont work with much figured material, so dont need the HH for that. But. I am considering the cost of sharpening/replacing the straight knives over time, and ease of resetting. From all Ive heard, the HH comes out ahead in both cases. But is it worth the extra $400 up front? 

I have decided to go with the straight knives.  I don't do any figured stuff and not only is it $400 more, on the 6 inch jointer that is almost  half again as much for the same tool.  I think that if you are going with an 8 inch then it becomes a better deal... and $400 is a lot toward the next thing whatever that may be.  You would have to sharpen you knives a lot to go through $400.

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I think there is a whole lot more benefit to the HH then just cutting figured wood. Downtime, noise, well just downtime and noise. I know it's probably just me that can never get motivated to keep tools sharp. The inserts make keeping the tooling sharp easy. The noise reduction as well as the increased cut capacity in my 735 was well worth doubling the investment cost of the machine. Just to note the HH machines aren't immune to tear out on figured wood. running grain backwards is still going to leave a nasty surface.

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If I had 220 in my shop I would definitely go with an 8 inch and with the 8 inch Helical I think you see less hurt in the wallet, it is a smaller percentage in the total price.  BUT I may change my thinking if something is out there with a 6 inch HH on a sale come Black Friday. :D

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3 hours ago, woodbutcher said:

Im gonna have a hard time not getting a PM 6" this Black Friday with the 10% off. Only thing holding me back are the hugely long beds that are gonna take up alot of my little bit of space left in my shop, but I need a jointer and really only want a PM. I was looking at Jet for quite a while, but for only $100 more, I could have a Powermatic.

I don't really want to buy now as I won't use it until spring.   I believe I've seen powermatic sales in the spring as well.

 

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7 minutes ago, Minnesota Steve said:

I don't really want to buy now as I won't use it until spring.   I believe I've seen powermatic sales in the spring as well.

 

If I do it here next week and they have a better sale come spring im gonna be really mad haha. Im in the same boat as you, it wont get used until spring, a little at most.

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I bought my PJ882 2 months or so ago, full well knowing that a black Friday sale was going to come and knock 10% off but i had no jointer and wanted to get the work done so i sucked it up. I've probably saved the 10% in just cheaper wood on the projects I've done so far with it. The ouch part is the PJ882HH has a large premium over the strait knives where it's cheaper ($450) to buy the strait knife jointer and replace the head.

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The other kind of major tool makers I can think of:  Rikon, Laguna.

For some reason it seems like certain brands get associated with certain tools, like Laguna for bandsaws and PM for table saws.  Not sure it really matters.  All of these brands are made in China or Taiwan (exceptions for some Laguna), and in some cases come from the same factory.

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11 hours ago, andrew-in-austin said:

The other kind of major tool makers I can think of:  Rikon, Laguna.

For some reason it seems like certain brands get associated with certain tools, like Laguna for bandsaws and PM for table saws.  Not sure it really matters.  All of these brands are made in China or Taiwan (exceptions for some Laguna), and in some cases come from the same factory.

Oh ya I completely forgot a put laguna and rikon. Even though I have a rikon lathe haha. 

Laguna seems to be a 1 tool wonder with their bandsaw though. Have not heard much good about their other tools and their support seems to be lacking 

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I totally get the fact that if you don't have the money, it doesn't matter how good the deal is ;-)  People do keep missing the math on insert heads though.  Mine paid for itself in under 2 years.  Plenty of stuff online about this.  Here's a snip from one trade rag regarding a planer but, the math still works on smaller cutter heads:

Quote

It’s pretty easy to say that a carbide edge will conservatively last 10 times longer than a high-speed steel (HSS) edge. Each insert in a Byrd head has four sharp sides, so the total longevity is about 40 times that of a straight HSS blade. Considering that a typical sharpening service will charge from 60 to 75 cents per inch, a 15-in. blade will cost at least $9 to sharpen. For three knives, that’s $27. Now if you sharpen those blades 40 times, the cost will be $1,080 not including the cost of replacement blades, or the time spent taking the blades to the sharpening service and retrieving them after sharpening. A replacement Byrd 15-in. cutterhead will cost $795, so retrofitting a Byrd head could save several hundred dollars in sharpening costs over the life of the cutters, and a bunch of time.

 

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I've always recommended Jet as an option. The problem is people are usually stuck in a state of mind that grizzly is low end stationary tools and powermatic is high end stationary tools. I've got a mix of tools in my shop from my 8" spiral head Grizzly jointer, a slew of Jet tools (tablesaw, lathe, drill press), Powermatic 15hh planer, Laguna 1412 bandsaw, and a Minimax MM20 bandsaw.  I can say with great confidence that my Jet stuff runs great and there's no shortage of quality, however when compared to the Minimax in terms of quality and overall beefiness, none of them compare. I'm planning to sell off my jointer and planer and upgrade to a combo unit from either SCM or Felder, I've definitely outgrown my jointer twice over. 

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1 hour ago, gee-dub said:

I totally get the fact that if you don't have the money, it doesn't matter how good the deal is ;-)  People do keep missing the math on insert heads though.  Mine paid for itself in under 2 years.  Plenty of stuff online about this.  Here's a snip from one trade rag regarding a planer but, the math still works on smaller cutter heads:

 

agreed ... a deal can be amazing but doesnt mean you can still afford it.

My thought process was when I bought my jointer was to use the standard blade until they need sharpening ... then go buy the Byrd head for it. No use in throwing away perfectly good knives that you paid for. Plus it will give me time to save up the extra money for the head anyways.

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2 hours ago, bushwacked said:

Oh ya I completely forgot a put laguna and rikon. Even though I have a rikon lathe haha. 

Laguna seems to be a 1 tool wonder with their bandsaw though. Have not heard much good about their other tools and their support seems to be lacking 

Laguna kind of has an odd range of product.   They have a couple of items like the bandsaw, table saw and their dust collectors which fit into the prosumer market.   Then practically everything else they make/sell is more industrial.    They have some wide jointers and planers that actually look the same as the powermatic models, and with similar price points.   Not sure how well that stuff sells.

Rikon seems to have a good line with moderate prices.   They seem to have a good feel for who their market is.

 

 

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I think a lot also has to do with what we see our "hero's" using.  Marc is all PM which has pointed many in that direction. If they had good experiences they stick with it.  Norm, despite all his nail holes, is still the craftsman I look up to most, which goes beyond woodworking.  My planer is the old makita he used to use, which makes me think that even when I upgrade I can still find a place for it. Dosnt hurt Makita is my favorite color. 

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I think you can get a lemon of any model.  I have a Shop Fox 8in jointer and I have spent allot of time working on it adjusting the beds and its improved over how it was when it arrived here but I'm still not happy with it. Someone else here could have one and love it.  Someday its going down the road.  I started with a delta 6in open base and never had to do anything to it but keep the blades sharp. I would someday like to try a PM jointer and hope I get a good one. 

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On 11/16/2017 at 2:08 PM, woodbutcher said:

If I do it here next week and they have a better sale come spring im gonna be really mad haha. Im in the same boat as you, it wont get used until spring, a little at most.

I don’t get it, what does spring have to do with it;)

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I will tell you one thing. I posted a question a few months ago about buying a bunch of shop equipment (20k worth). I was leaning towards all yellow. After much discussion and insight from others I dont have a single piece of yellow in my shop. I ended up going with the euro style equipment (minimax and Hammer). I know plan to replace my sawstop with a Minimax or Felder sliding table saw / shaper combo. 

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On 11/16/2017 at 7:35 PM, andrew-in-austin said:

The other kind of major tool makers I can think of:  Rikon, Laguna.

For some reason it seems like certain brands get associated with certain tools, like Laguna for bandsaws and PM for table saws.  Not sure it really matters.  All of these brands are made in China or Taiwan (exceptions for some Laguna), and in some cases come from the same factory.

Laguna has this T5S industrial TS that's always looked pretty beefy to me.  Retail price is $3,999 but they've had some demos on sale for $3,400 or so from time to time.  

It's got a 5hp motor, 3/4 hp scoring unit, 14" blade capacity...nice looking saw IMO.  I'd think that it has enough features to compete with the Sawstop ICS and Powermatic but I've never heard of (read about) anyone using it.  I've got an 18" Laguna BS (Asian) that I've been real happy with   

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On 11/16/2017 at 10:52 AM, kyokahn said:

Not sure Ridgid fits in that list. Sure, there's no real competition around the $500 for their table saw and jointer, but they don't even have a high end. Dewalt would have a better shot at competing on planers i think, but again, no real high end there either.

Laguna belongs in that list IMO.

For mid range entry level shop stuff I found it to be Ridgid and Delta with Dewalt having a really strong presence in lots of areas. Looking up reviews when I was looking for a table saw I went with Dewalt. Why? I found so many bad reviews for the Ridgid TS with the fence that got gun shy. 

All the reviews of new Delta was that it’s not as good as old Delta and motors burning out etc. Dewalt, hard to find a negative review. 

What I wondered was if the Ridgid and Delta were being held to higher standard due to the fact that they are more traditional looking shop saws over the job site saw? Maybe. 

Grizzly is your low end entry to “industrial/pro shop” tools. With that Jet/Wen/Grizzly look to be the same tools with different paint jobs lots of times. So then you are comparing price and reviews and I think Grizzly gets more business because the price is better and heck, they look the same and reviews are generally positive. Jet is typically just a tad too much price wise that if you are gonna spend more you might as well spend more and go up to the next notch with PM, Saw Stop etc. 

Just my 2 cents and why I have a lot of Grizzly and Dewalt tools...

 

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15 hours ago, BillyDoubleU said:

What I wondered was if the Ridgid and Delta were being held to higher standard due to the fact that they are more traditional looking shop saws over the job site saw? Maybe.

I would say: Absolutely! People buying a dewalt TS are looking for a small jobsite saw and accept its limitations. They do a lot of things right and I think their rack and pinion fence should be adopted by many other companies. But it cannot increase its table surface area, it'll never have the same stability and rigidity or a full size saw and it will be noisy compared to the ridgid or a Delta. That's just not what its buyers are looking for.

Both Delta and Ridgid had trunion alignment issues, which at least Ridgid worked out and made right for old customers, but I'd be hard pressed to find a better overal, full size table saw than the Ridgid for $500, at least not a new one. Too bad they bumped the price on their jointer so much and never made a matching full size planer or drum sander hahah

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