Jean [Fr] Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 23 hours ago, TIODS said: I have no issues with a dedicated space for CNC folks, I've considered one myself. With that said, my only question would be "is there enough here to maintain any sort of consistent activity in the space?" Probably there will be a growing interest about woodworking with CNC machines. There's a lot to say around the CNC stuff : commercial machines, DIY machines, cutting tools, process, realizations... 22 hours ago, Mick S said: I belong to other CNC forums, but none of them is a dedicated CNC woodworking forum. I'm not interested in the chip loads for a 3/8" 3 flute low helix upshear for machining cold rolled steel, but it would be nice to see what others do to get a good edge on 4/4 maple. I have never popped into the Turners Forum, but I appreciate that they have it. I totally agree. Most of CNC forums, like CNC zone, mostly talks about DIY CNC machines and not that much about machining wood. 22 hours ago, Keggers said: 22 hours ago, K Cooper said: And it would be like sending the cnc folks to “ time out” when we get tired of hearing from them ! Right Ken! We can say "go to YOUR room!" Very funny. That will be so delightful when we will see finally the growing interest of haters 9 hours ago, difalkner said: But it's just another tool in the shop. Not really, this is a shop within a shop. 5 hours ago, Chet said: There has been a CNC sub forum added to power tools. WT have Hand Tools, Power Tools, sections. I guess a CNC Machines section makes sense, as it is an apart way to do. The subject is comparable to the two others. IMHO a CNC machine cannot be considered as a power tool, it is a different process, a different workflow. You can (and you should) make an entire piece out of a CNC including joinery and finishing. I feel uncomfortable... People still does not understand what a CNC machine process means in 2017. We're not back to several years ago when Popular Woodworking was claiming the CNC router was the perfect tool to make jigs ! What ?!? But CNC is just all about no more jigs ever ! I can't understand there's still so much rivers to cross while some of us use this technology for 10 years ! My kingdom for a CNC Machines section ! Or we will be glued in the XXe century forever ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Chet said: There has been a CNC sub forum added to power tools. Hurray! And already three threads. I gotta get started on my vicarious learning. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 And now can we have a section on what to do with sawdust? Just kidding. Seriously though, congrats guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyokahn Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 On 12/10/2017 at 1:45 PM, wdwerker said: I just like to give the CNC crowd a hard time That's how I read your initial comment, hence my dismissively broad reply. Some people took it way too seriously. On 12/11/2017 at 7:10 AM, difalkner said: And I have said it many times on other forums and to other woodworkers that while I may have built a beast of a CNC it's just another tool in my shop. This! most of the time, the CNC will just take care of making a small part of the project, decorate a drawer front, make some oddly shaped drawer pulls you want 10 of but would be a pain to match to each other by hand, inlay and marquetry for those who aren't specialists in it, engraving messages/logos on finished projects. Just a part of a much bigger workflow. I do get that weird feeling when I see those Biesse Rover $200k + machines make a whole set of standard cabinets in full auto mode, it makes woodworking an overly industrialized and robotic process when all you have to do i prepare the stock and apply finish. But really, that's not what we're talking about here (Edit: mostly, some people will probably bring in full automation to the table). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, kyokahn said: That's how I read your initial comment, hence my dismissively broad reply. Some people took it way too seriously. Hmm, it doesn’t take a full emoji. See a semicolon ; and a half parenthesis ) go together like this and the forum automatically throws a yellow face in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hey an apprentice is an apprentice wither it has 4 legs and eats meat, 2 legs and eats kale, or no legs and eats electrical pixies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean [Fr] Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 hours ago, kyokahn said: This! most of the time, the CNC will just take care of making a small part of the project, decorate a drawer front, make some oddly shaped drawer pulls you want 10 of but would be a pain to match to each other by hand, inlay and marquetry for those who aren't specialists in it, engraving messages/logos on finished projects. Just a part of a much bigger workflow. I do get that weird feeling when I see those Biesse Rover $200k + machines make a whole set of standard cabinets in full auto mode, it makes woodworking an overly industrialized and robotic process when all you have to do i prepare the stock and apply finish. But really, that's not what we're talking about here (Edit: mostly, some people will probably bring in full automation to the table). I bring full automation to the table, absolutely ! If you just consider carving or bulk making of boring parts, I'm afraid you do not get what CNC machining is all about, or you just use a CNC at 10% of its capacity. I know some people will say that a 100% CNC process is not woodworking, or : what is left to the woodworker then ? Well, a lot ! Definitely, the most important is left to the woodworker. First, don't even think the machine will do a perfect job just pushing a button. CNC machining requires an high knowledge about wood to produce good results. You need to understand feed and speed, joinery, wood grain and wood species, how milling bits works versus wood, and so on. Basically : all the woodworker skills except the hand. This is highly woodworking, the most technical way. And the most important ever : you can focus on creation, and you will definitely spend more time on creation. A lot of woodworkers says the best woodworking time is when you apply the finish on. I'm one of them. And the second satisfying moment is when pieces comes together perfectly. I remember one of my first 100% CNC project with the satisfaction given by the hidden self locking joinery. So exciting ! Most of the time I have the CNC machines running while I work about the next project creation. I do 10 fully satisfying pieces in the time needed to do half a one with conventional ways. When a family member ask for a copy of an existing piece, it's just a breeze. You can rebuild broken parts in minutes. The more complex the workpiece is, the most easy it is to make it on a CNC rather than with conventional tools. But don't get me wrong, I still love working with my hand tools, but only on fast projects which allows me to finish within the time of CAD drawing. The single downside I found about 10 years of CNC machining (behind 30 years of conventional woodworking) is this that bad boys are not quiet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 And just to add to this discussion, the finished piece is what I look at. If I'm curious about how the end result was achieved then I might inquire as to the steps involved. It would be pretty closed minded to look at a project you like and then 'not' like it when you find out a portion was done by CNC. There are some people over at Neanderthal Haven on SMC who think if you use a thickness planer instead of a hand plane that you've crossed the line. But I'm not trying to please any of them; I have a small pool of customers for whom I do work and they like what I do - not once has the question come up as to whether I used a CNC on their particular piece. I have been woodworking over 45 years (wow, that sounds like a long time!) and until this time last year I had never used a biscuit joiner. But I have to tell you that those little tools are fantastic and I'm glad that has been added to the shop. Oh, well, enough... enjoy woodworking at whatever level you play in and make the best of the tools and space you have! David 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, difalkner said: Oh, well, enough... enjoy woodworking at whatever level you play in and make the best of the tools and space you have! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyokahn Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 21 hours ago, Jean [Fr] said: If you just consider carving or bulk making of boring parts, I'm afraid you do not get what CNC machining is all about, or you just use a CNC at 10% of its capacity. Considering a CNC within my means and level of expertise (low budget and beginner), it's not surprising I'd start with using a 10% of its capacity. There are many things that can be done in the CNC almost entirely, but most of them I haven't figured out or consider it worth the effort doing it by hand or traditional tools. Some other cases it's the other way around, where you need very specialized tools and tons of experience to produce what a cheap CNC can carve out in minutes. We'll see how it goes, but I can already tell you'll be able to contribute a lot in the CNC section of the forum. I'm just about to start building my own machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean [Fr] Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 That attached pic was my start back in 2003. If some of you guys are interested by the full genuine book, follow the link ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
difalkner Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 PM sent Davd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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