Dolmetscher007 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Hi Guys! Happy Presidents Day Weekend! I have a really important question about wood veneer. I build, almost exclusively, Mid-Century Modern furniture. Besides the incredibly simple clean designs and the lack of ornamentation, one of the main reasons why I love it so much, is because I can build it all using very inexpensive 3/4" plywood from Home Depot @ $45 per full 48' x 96" sheet. The only issue that I run into is that in order to build anything that looks elegant and really finished, I have to build it, and then cover it all in veneer to hide all the ply-edges, screw holes, and less than beautiful birch plywood. The problem that this creates is the sheer cost of the veneer. I've found Cherry to be the best of all worlds as far as price, beauty, and availability. However, a full sheet of the absolute lowest grade (flat cut), with the lowest grade backer (10 mm paper), and no special features... has a widely swinging price range from, $71.88 per sheet, up to $166.78. ($94.90 difference!) I learned most everything I know about veneer from watching Jon Peters on YouTube. He really makes the absolute best videos on veneering and Mid-Century Modern Furniture. Have a look at this awesome video on Building a Modern Bookcase, if you are at all interested in that style, or in veneer. In Jon's videos he uses veneer from Oakwood Veneer in Michigan. So... of course... that's what I did too, and I loved it. It was a joy to work with, and it came out looking better than honestly any piece of furniture I've ever seen. I was not expecting it to turn out so great! However... I could go down to my local hardwood dealer, and for $166.78 (the cost of 1 sheet of veneer) and buy enough 4/4 solid cherry and make the table out of solid cherry. It seems strange to spend almost 4x the amount of veneer that you spent on the wood it is covering. I have been amazingly lucky enough to have 8-10 people come to me to build this one particular coffee table that I build for them. So, I will be batching this job out, and cranking them out. But if you have a look at the links below, you can see that I stand to pay between $359.40 and $833.90 in sheets of veneer alone... (5x full sheets = 10 tables). That's a difference of $474.50, between the cheapest and the most expensive.... just for the veneer! Oakwood Veneer — (1x) 48" x 96" — Cherry Veneer - Rotary 1 Piece Face Premium American Black w/ 10mm paper backer - $146.88 + $19.90 s&h = $166.78 Rockler — (2x) 24" x 96" — Cherry Veneer Rolls with 10 Mil Paper Backing - $109.98 + 13.99 s&h = $123.97 Woodcraft — (1x) 48" x 96" — Cherry Veneer flat cut 4' x 8' - 10 mil - $89.50 + $8.14 s&h = $97.64 This Place: veneersupplies.com(?) — (1x) 48" x 96" — Paper-Backed Cherry Veneer Flat Cut - $58.50 + $13.38 s&h = $71.88 Can anyone of you offer me some tips or stories from your experiences with veneer about where I can find 'descent' looking veneer for covering birch plywood? Thank you guys for reading this super long post. Hopefully you can see how much this means to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm not a veneer guy, but I suspect the fact that you are buying veneers in 48 x 96 inch sheets has a lot to do with your pricing. I've only seen people use veneers in more lumber-like sizes, marbe 8 to 12 inches wide. Have you tried pricing such sizes, to see if the total adds up to what a giant sheet does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Sheets of veneer are cut from the finest logs available. Then they dry the veneers, cut the edges straight to make the the seams then glue the veneer face to the backer. And then you are buying small quantities and your supplier is likely just a middleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 For your project, is using cherry ply with mitered joints and edge banding with veneer or solid cherry strips an option? And what’s wrong with using solid cherry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Buying hardwood plywood would save a lot of work too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat60 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 I would just use the hardwood plywood if your time is important to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmetscher007 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 I’ve attached a picture of the table i built that everybody wants. It is essentially a box shaped like a VCR w/ a cross brace underneath, and feet/legs that splay out. One sheet of 3/4” ply will make two tables. One sheet of cherry veneer will too. That brings ea. table’s total wood cost to around $150 unfinished, and in painted. I just looked online, and I can buy 20 bd/ft of Cherry hardwood for $152. Problem is... I’ve never cut a dove tail in my life. I have no jointer and no thickness planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmetscher007 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hardwood plywood sounds like a great idea! But how am I going to be able to cut a 22-24” long miter that is perfectly 45 degrees. And do it 4 times, and at perfect lengths. And then, w/o a spline or internal floating dominos or something... it will be fragile, and as soon as my 340 lb uncle sits on it... it’s done. right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dolmetscher007 said: Hardwood plywood sounds like a great idea! But how am I going to be able to cut a 22-24” long miter that is perfectly 45 degrees. And do it 4 times, and at perfect lengths. And then, w/o a spline or internal floating dominos or something... it will be fragile, and as soon as my 340 lb uncle sits on it... it’s done. right? If you have some decent quality ply or even cheap ply do a test piece let the glue dry 24 hours and give it the ol Mattias Wendel jump test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Going back to your original post, why in the world would you buy the veneer from Oakwood Veneer at $166.78 when you can get it at VeenerSupplies at $71.88. If you have to buy the expensive stuff, just because your buddy recommends it, then adjust your sale price accordingly. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Pay a shop with a sliding table saw to cut the pieces for you, and you do the assembly. That's what a good slider is made for. Miter the corners, and edgeband the edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RichardA Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Or , get the necessary tools, and take up woodworking. I hope you can take a joke. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, RichardA said: Or , get the necessary tools, and take up woodworking. I hope you can take a joke. No sir, no joke, I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 @Dolmetscher007 , what sort of tools do you have available? Knowing what you can work with, perhaps we can suggest was to accomplish this with hardwood ply or solid wood. I can see doing it with a circular saw, long T-square / straightedge, and a router with 2 bits. Or a circular saw, T-square, and a drill. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmetscher007 Posted February 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 11:21 PM, wtnhighlander said: @Dolmetscher007 , what sort of tools do you have available? Knowing what you can work with, perhaps we can suggest was to accomplish this with hardwood ply or solid wood. I can see doing it with a circular saw, long T-square / straightedge, and a router with 2 bits. Or a circular saw, T-square, and a drill. I have the following tools in my shop that might relate to this project. Grizzly G0690 3 HP Cab. 220V Table Saw Dewalt 7 1/4" Circular saw A long extruded aluminum bubble square that I clamp down as a straight edge, and a 2 ft. long carpenter's square. A DEWALT DW618PK 12-AMP 2-1/4 HP Plunge and Fixed-Base Variable-Speed Router Kit Various round over router bits... 1 1/2" flush cut bit, and 1 3/4" wide straight-edged "dado/rabbit" 1/2" shank bit. That's about it. I have 4 Bessey pipe clamps and some Bessie F clamps. I also have a few of those crappy plastic pump squeeze clamps that don't help much. I found out that my local Home Depot can order for me, Columbia Forrest Product's EuroplyPLUS that is essentially a domestically produced "Baltic Birch" plywood replacement. The 3/4" sheets are 15 plys of 100% birch. I called Columbia Forrest Products and they are sending me a couple of small samples. I am going to take the 12" x 12" samples they send me, try a miter cut and join them into right angles, and then finish apply a finish by also sealing the ply'ed edges with a grain filler (may take a couple of applications). And if it looks good... I'm going to give it a try to build one of my tables with this nice plywood. Does anyone have a resource on how to absolutely perfectly cut a 22" long 45-degree angle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 I would think trying a Grizzly G0690 3 HP 220 volt Table Saw. Since you have one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmetscher007 Posted February 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, RichardA said: I would think trying a Grizzly G0690 3 HP 220 volt Table Saw. Since you have one. Thanks... i meant... w/ my table saw... I’ll never nail a perfect 45 across 22” that is also perfectly square etc... or am I being paranoid? The wood ain’t cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 What about using cherry ply and butt joints then veneer the sides & back to conceal the joints. Biscuits, dominos or even dowels would make the butt joints strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Steve's sounds like the best plan. With the router, a slot cutting bit would allow you to use splines without having to buy another tool. Since the edges will be banded, splines can run all the way through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 That's what's so great about this forum ! I completely forgot about splines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 If getting square cuts from you TS isn't working, how about clamping your straight edge guide across the 22" width of ply and routing across with a 90* V-bit? Lowering the bit until it just passes through cuts both sides of a miter at once. You still need a reliable way to square the straightedge guid across the ply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 I would first buy cherry ply instead of 24x96 pieces of veneer, or whatever wood. I would use dowels or domino for butt joint, offsetting towards inside of box a bit. Then I would cut a 1/4" rabbet along the corners and glue in hardwood of the same species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Dolmetscher007 said: Thanks... i meant... w/ my table saw... I’ll never nail a perfect 45 across 22” that is also perfectly square etc... or am I being paranoid? The wood ain’t cheap. With a crosscut sled or along the rip fence , It just seems not that difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 That Woodpeckers framing square is a great way to get that track just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Woodenskye said: I would first buy cherry ply instead of 24x96 pieces of veneer, or whatever wood. I would use dowels or domino for butt joint, offsetting towards inside of box a bit. Then I would cut a 1/4" rabbet along the corners and glue in hardwood of the same species. Which would have the effect of providing a much more robust corner that also be eased a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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