estesbubba

Shop security and cameras

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I've recently installed some Ring spotlight wired cameras on our property and so far happy with them. I installed one in my shop which covers the overhead door, front door, and all the windows. The night vision is decent with the spotlight but Ring has a new firmware coming out that that enhances the night vision and adds color. The spotlight and video recording is triggered by motion and can also be manually controlled. All video is stored in the cloud and installing and setting up the camera takes 5 minutes. For $100/yr you can have unlimited cameras store unlimited videos for 60 days. 

We live about 15 miles from the city and haven't had any crime problems but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Since we camp a lot in the summer the cameras are also nice to manually check things out from away. 

Here is what the spotlight looks like with the shop lights all off.

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Here is a snapshot from the video with the spotlight on and shop lights off. You can see a ghost of me in the center of the shop.

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Here is a snapshot of recording with shop lights on.

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My question is in the eyes of a criminal, would a Ring sticker on the door saying you're being recorded and the spotlight coming on when they enter be enough to scare them off? Or would having automation turn on the shop lights 10 seconds after the spotlight and recording comes on help better? It would definitely help identify them better but my main concern is scaring them off and preventing any theft. 

The cameras on my porch and deck turn on the outside lights 10 seconds after they detect motion. This is a little different because they would think someone in the house got up and turned them on. With the shop it would be obvious that no one is in there but I guess they might think someone in the house turned them on? Of course if they're on meth you can probably throw any logic out the door. 

@bleedinblue you're in law enforcement, what do you think? BTW did you end up installing any cameras on your property yet?

 

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I have a monitored security system and one camera in the shop. The video results appear to be close to what you are getting. Like you I live in the country and I like being able to check on things when traveling for business. I have always felt the sign is probably more important then the alarm/camera itself figuring that if kids see it they may think twice and if an experienced thief sees it they may move on to something easier. Having said that I have no factual data to back that theory up but I'll ask my daughter she is a Michigan State Police officer so she may have some insight.

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We have a Ring doorbell and love it. There's a little bit of delay on it, but I'm hoping that's because of our mesh network and I can fix it. I'm too cheap to buy a Ring camera so I invested in a couple of WyzeCams and have been very happy with them. Unfortunately they are not water proof so they're for indoor use only. 

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1 minute ago, bleedinblue said:

I'd guess that stickers or signs alone will turn 30-50% of burglars away.  

Locks too, but if somebody really wants to get in those won't stop them. A camera is more for recovery/prosecution than deterrent. 

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Mike. If I was a thief, and I'm sure similar results of your night vision video have been posted other places, I don't think it would be much deterrence.  You can make out the figure of the person, but other details are very limited.  I think signage that states video monitoring in progress would help.  If there was a way to turn the lights on 30 seconds after the Ring motion sensor kicks on, would be much more valuable given you live in a more rural area.  Does the Ring system include monitoring that can call police?  

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I've looked at a lot of security video in my day, mostly commercial.  The still shots posted above are AMAZING compared to most systems, even current systems.  The only place I know of with similar quality video is a casino in my precinct. 

The chances are null that a burglar is going to see signage that says "Ring video surveillance" and say to himself "yo Pookie...this guy's got security video but it's just Ring.  I watched a bunch of online reviews and sample video from Ring and they're not gonna be able to get a face shot of me, let's do this!"

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My biggest fear isn't the theft, I never want to come face to face with a stranger in my house. Do i tackle them? Do i just stand there and stare at them? It's a confrontation i don't want to experience, I'll part with some insured property before that experience.

7 minutes ago, bleedinblue said:

I've looked at a lot of security video in my day, mostly commercial.  The still shots posted above are AMAZING compared to most systems, even current systems.  The only place I know of with similar quality video is a casino in my precinct. 

The chances are null that a burglar is going to see signage that says "Ring video surveillance" and say to himself "yo Pookie...this guy's got security video but it's just Ring.  I watched a bunch of online reviews and sample video from Ring and they're not gonna be able to get a face shot of me, let's do this!"

Do the good cameras help more than the bad cameras? If the presence of a camera is a deterrent would a fake camera work? How about motion lights?

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Good cameras will certainly help more for identification and prosecution after the fact.  In the past few years a lot of cases have been cleared by the victims themselves (also by the police, as more departments have ventured into the social media realm) by posting photos on social media trying to identify the thieves.  That doesn't work out too well with grainy video.  Even with the examples above, I'd bet Mike's family would be able to look at that and recognize him even without a face shot.

Fake cameras and motion lights certainly would help.  Of course fake cameras aren't a new idea, so some thieves will be ballsy enough to take the gamble...others won't. 

Your fear of coming face to face with a burglar is most burglar's biggest fear too...all but the upper echelons of criminals just want to steal your stuff and get out of there without a confrontation.  It's for that reason I think motion lights work well, the burglar thinks someone either turned on the light or the light is going to get someone's attention. 

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3 minutes ago, bleedinblue said:

Good cameras will certainly help more for identification and prosecution after the fact.  In the past few years a lot of cases have been cleared by the victims themselves (also by the police, as more departments have ventured into the social media realm) by posting photos on social media trying to identify the thieves.

Fake cameras and motion lights certainly would help.  Of course fake cameras aren't a new idea, so some thieves will be ballsy enough to take the gamble...others won't. 

Your fear of coming face to face with a burglar is most burglar's biggest fear too...all but the upper echelons of criminals just want to steal your stuff and get out of there without a confrontation.  It's for that reason I think motion lights work well, the burglar thinks someone either turned on the light or the light is going to get someone's attention. 

Maybe I've had bad experiences. Growing up there was some simple crime that happened in our neighborhood (broken car windows ect,) we saw and Id'd the people that did it, people we knew from school, and the police did nothing about it because the parents lied for them. To me the camera system is just verifying what they stole and how they did it, or a deterrent to stop them from starting said act. I suppose adults don't have parents to give them a fake alibi.

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33 minutes ago, bleedinblue said:

I really like the lights coming on in the shop.  The average burglar is going to be a nervous wreck, whether it's obvious or not, during the burglary.  When the lights come on and they're in a strange building, more often than not that's going to send them running out the door or window they came.  They're not going to take the thirty seconds it would take to visually scan the shop to see if anyone is inside.  The vast majority of thieves/burglars highest priority is not getting caught or seen.  I bet the lights coming on would scare away 90%

Good to know since I can add z-wave switches which I can have turn on the lights when motion is detected. That was the main reason for this thread was to see if it's a good idea to blast them with light!

34 minutes ago, bleedinblue said:

The Nest, however, records CONTINUOUSLY.  That's awesome in theory, but it's gotta eat up a lot of internet resources.  The cloud service is also more expensive than Ring's.

Ring doesn't record continuously but one downside I found is you can setup schedules to not get motion alerts but can't have it not record. I emailed the owner of Ring (his email address is on all the boxes) and he replied within a couple of hours on a Sunday that the functionality to setup schedules to not record at all is coming in a couple of months. For now I have a wifi outlet that the shop camera is plugged into and just say "Alexa turn off shop camera" when I enter the shop. I don't want it recording the entire time I'm out there. 

34 minutes ago, thatCharlieDude said:

We have a Ring doorbell and love it. There's a little bit of delay on it, but I'm hoping that's because of our mesh network and I can fix it.

Is it battery powered or wired? In my research with the Ring cameras I've found that electrical powered devices record a few seconds before motion and for 60 seconds. Battery powered devices record once motion is detected and it takes a few seconds to get to full quality and only records for 30 seconds. 

37 minutes ago, Woodenskye said:

 Does the Ring system include monitoring that can call police?

Not yet but they are coming out with their security solution this spring. 

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1 hour ago, estesbubba said:

Is it battery powered or wired? In my research with the Ring cameras I've found that electrical powered devices record a few seconds before motion and for 60 seconds. Battery powered devices record once motion is detected and it takes a few seconds to get to full quality and only records for 30 seconds. 

It's wired. This is it https://www.wyzecam.com/ I can't believe all the functionality they cramped in there for the price. You can add a microSD card for recording, it records 3 days worth of video on a 32 gb card. 

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I've had similar concerns around shop security, and I need to do some more research... Thanks for starting the topic Mike, this is a good reminder. Ring, Alexa, Nest, and the all-in-one security bundles - there are a ton of choices. 

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2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Maybe I've had bad experiences. Growing up there was some simple crime that happened in our neighborhood (broken car windows ect,) we saw and Id'd the people that did it, people we knew from school, and the police did nothing about it because the parents lied for them. To me the camera system is just verifying what they stole and how they did it, or a deterrent to stop them from starting said act. I suppose adults don't have parents to give them a fake alibi.

Locally, and I'm guessing it's country-wide, the juvenile courts are a bit of a joke.  Save for violent crimes, there is a very small chance anything is done to the juvenile even if it is proven they did the crime.  Add in the restrictions for interviewing/interrogating juveniles, and kids can basically do whatever the hell they want and get away with most of it. 

50 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I am a CCW holder but i would probably be hesitant to fire a shot to save my own life.

I grew up from a farming family the honest truth is i'd probably greet a stranger with "Oh hey can i help you with something?"

At least you can admit that.  Most people get their CCW permit and just assume the ability to shoot someone in self defense is just automatic.  You gotta have a real come to Jesus talk with yourself over whether or not you could actually shoot someone.  It isn't so easy, and if you do end up shooting someone get ready for the PTSD bug.  (I have not, but came close enough that I have some...baggage)

2 hours ago, estesbubba said:

Is it battery powered or wired? In my research with the Ring cameras I've found that electrical powered devices record a few seconds before motion and for 60 seconds. Battery powered devices record once motion is detected and it takes a few seconds to get to full quality and only records for 30 seconds.

 

The reviews I've read/watched for the wired Ring doorbell cams said they're prone to a bit of a delay from the point that someone rings the doorbell and you get the notification on your phone.  Some were saying between 10-15 seconds.  Not a lot, but enough that someone may ring the doorbell and be walking away by the time you answer your phone.  Some reviews said that a wired Ring camera close to the area of the doorbell (so same Wifi strength) did not have the same delay.

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2 hours ago, bleedinblue said:

The reviews I've read/watched for the wired Ring doorbell cams said they're prone to a bit of a delay from the point that someone rings the doorbell and you get the notification on your phone.  Some were saying between 10-15 seconds.  Not a lot, but enough that someone may ring the doorbell and be walking away by the time you answer your phone.  Some reviews said that a wired Ring camera close to the area of the doorbell (so same Wifi strength) did not have the same delay.

I went with a Spotlight cam wired over a doorbell and glad I did. Other than being a doorbell there are many advantages to the spotlight cam including being able to adjust the position, spotlight, 110db siren, customizable motion zones, and less fisheye. Mine is plugged into a locked outlet cover so it will take them a little work to unplug (or I guess just cut) it. By that time I'll already have video in the cloud. Oh, and our doorbell gets rang about 4 times a year so I'm not missing anything there!

Here is where I mounted mine.

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And the view it gives.

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The normal price for the spotlight cameras is $200 but it seems every other week they are $169 at Amazon and Home Depot. Home Depot is great if you buy 2 or more you get 10% off so I got mine for just over $150 each. 

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I will have to lean on the side of seeing what happened after the fact vs. preventing anything.  If they know there is a cam they put their head down cap on/hood up and proceed.  Or... I live in a town across from the library and a retirement home and next door to several townhouses.  At 5 in the afternoon a girl and her mother were walking on the other side of the street from my house.  The girl ran across, followed by her mother walking and the girl stole a package from amazon (a 12" drill bit extension!!) from my porch.  They both walked to their car across the street and drove off.  The signs did not deter them, but the box drew them in.  Because my cameras allowed me to see the book in the girls hands as she reached in to get my package, I checked with the library and they said that book was checked out at the time the package was stolen.  I gave the info to the police and they got the girl and the mother based on the library info.  Although the frame below does not look that clear it is from HD video and the girl was moving fast. BTW Only after the prosecutor saw the video of the mother accompanying the girl across the street did they press charges against her as well

So what does this mean:  Better cameras make a difference, signs don't. It was 5 in the afternoon, with many people walking around and they were brazen.

I use a free PC based software called Milestone (it is a commercial package that they allow 8 free cameras). The motion sensing allows me to pre-record what ever amount of time I want before the motion is detected and however much after. I use IP cameras wired to my utility room. The PC acts as a server of sorts for all our backups and runs my automation and video surveillance software.  I use separate motion sensors for lights and to notify me when motion is detected because video motion is hard to get reliable.  Outside video motion can be triggered with light changes (car headlights panning the area), leaves blowing, rain and snow, birds and bugs too.

My setup is a little more involved than many may want to bother with, but maybe it will give you some other perspectives to consider depending on whatever you decide to use.

Hope this helps.

Carl

Book Zoom.jpg

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I live in a state that requires 2-party consent to record, so signs are mandatory. IMO, motion sensors that turn on lights, and / or a recording of a yapping chihuahua, are more effective at preventing a burglary.

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