Dovetail Chisels

[Coop 7451]

Derek, I looked at your articles. Very well done. Thanks for sharing.

[Cheeset202 291]

Just received my 1/4” and 1/2” Veritas PM11 mortise chisels and I have a Blue Spruce 3/8” fishtail on the way.  The Veritas mortise chisels always seem to be on back order. They said the 3/8” mortise chisel will not be available until July!  Nut I usually buy 1 or 2 good quality hand tools at a time when the funds permit.  I have used lower cost chisels for many years and they have made me appreciate the quality in the higher end tools but it still comes down to 90% skill in sharpening and use.  The higher end chisels hold their edge much longer and feel more comfortable and balanced in my hands.

[Robby W 263]

How you remove the waste has a lot to do with what chisel you select. If you chop the waste out with a chisel, then that chisel has to have an edge that won't crumble under the impact force. Then follow up with a really sharp parring chisel with very small sides.

If you cut most of the waste with a jeweller's saw or coping saw, the the parring chisel is most important.

Years ago when we didn't have the selection of chisels we have now, I bought a set of Freud chisels. They we're the best I could afford. They sharpened up nicely, but when used to chop out the waste, the edges didn't last; then tended to crumble. I ended up getting a couple of good Japanese chisels and they worked better. 

Recently, I got part of a set of Lie-Neilsen chisels. I like the way they are ground. The steel feels like it will hold up better. I am looking forward to my next project with dovetailed drawers. Time will tell. I am going to get an fishtailed chisel for those pesky blind pin corners too. 

Collecting tools is fun!

[Belle City WW 74]

Chestnut,

I am going through the same thing you are, trying to decide which direction to go.  I ordered one Japanese Chisel and I am going to look at the LN chisels at their open house in a few weeks.  

I have a great set of chisels (Barr Cabinet Chisels) they were all gifted to me over a few years, the problem is when I chop and pair dovetails with them, they are very thick and bulky for such at times is a very delicate and precise task.  I too want to get better at this, so I opted to try the Japanese first.  I see Chris Becksvoort and others use the LN chisels, so I will give them a look and try as well.  

Happy Shopping!

John

[Chestnut 5480]

20 minutes ago, Belle City WW said:

Chestnut,

I am going through the same thing you are, trying to decide which direction to go.  I ordered one Japanese Chisel and I am going to look at the LN chisels at their open house in a few weeks.  

I have a great set of chisels (Barr Cabinet Chisels) they were all gifted to me over a few years, the problem is when I chop and pair dovetails with them, they are very thick and bulky for such at times is a very delicate and precise task.  I too want to get better at this, so I opted to try the Japanese first.  I see Chris Becksvoort and others use the LN chisels, so I will give them a look and try as well.  

Happy Shopping!

John

Let me know what you figure out. I broached this subject far before i intended to make my purchase so i still haven't bought anything. Summer is busy at work and outside for me so woodworking gets set aside for a couple months.

[Ronn W 1593]

Chestnut,

I have been using a small variety of chisels from my mix matched set - LN, Stanley, Narex, Irwin - I have found that how the chisel feels in your hand is very important  (it would be a deciding factor for me) and each of us is different.  If you have not tried one of the chisels that I listed you are welcome to come over and play with mine. Also if you have any others that I don't list I would like to try them.  Shoot to me a message if interested.

[Chestnut 5480]

10 hours ago, Ronn W said:

Chestnut,

I have been using a small variety of chisels from my mix matched set - LN, Stanley, Narex, Irwin - I have found that how the chisel feels in your hand is very important  (it would be a deciding factor for me) and each of us is different.  If you have not tried one of the chisels that I listed you are welcome to come over and play with mine. Also if you have any others that I don't list I would like to try them.  Shoot to me a message if interested.

LOL i have a mixed set of stanley narex and Irwin. I got to play with the LN at their st cloud event a while back and they felt similar but very different to the stanlet chisels.

If i ever get anything new i'll let you know so you can give it a try.

[pkinneb 3424]

2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

...If i ever get anything new i'll let you know so you can give it a try.

We could have a Mpls chisel meetup LOL. I have Rob Cosman, LN, Ashley Iles, a few Narex mortise chisels, and my first ones which were Marples.

[Isaac 671]

On 4/18/2018 at 9:27 AM, derekcohen said:

 

 

Derek, How do you manage to cut and remove that tiny sliver for the pin between the tails? I see this sort of dovetail and it appears to be almost thinner than a dovetail saw at the narrow end. I can understand the first saw cut, of course, but the second cut, doesn't that start right on the corner left by the first cut? I hope that makes sense, but its something that has frustrated me whenever I try to get those really narrow pins. Is it just a matter of biting the bullet and keeping at it?

[Coop 7451]

+1

[derekcohen 1115]

Isaac, I saw the tail board first, and the apex of the tail is a single kerf ...

The waste is removed with a fretsaw and a chisel, the latter usually either 1/8" or 3/16" wide.

When transferring tails to pins, you need a very slim knife ...

I have an article on my website that shows the process:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Ask questions, and I'll do my best to answer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

 

[Just Bob 696]

I bought this set of Japanese chisels from Grizzly:  http://www.grizzly.com/products/Japanese-Chisels-10-pc-Set/G7102 because I wanted to try Japanese chisels.  I have no idea what the steel is, Grizzly says they are high carbon steel with a Rockwell hardness of 63.  I have had them for a couple of years, and for me they are comfortable to use, they were a little tough get sharp on their first sharpening.  But they do hold an edge.   I have no idea how they would be for dovetails, the arthritis in my right hand is severe enough that I can't hold a saw long enough to cut a dovetail.  But for the stuff I use chisels for these do ok.  Of course for fathers day one of my sons gave me a Stanley Sweetheart #50 Everlasting 1/2" chisel, and I immediately fell in love.  I have never held a chisel that was so comfortable to use, I have been scrounging all of the local pawn shops trying to find more.  No luck.  

If you haven't already gone to @derekcohen web site do it as soon as you can.  I have been "borrowing" stuff from there for a couple of years.  My search for a decent marking knife ended there.  Followed his tutorial, for a marking knife, had so much fun I made 5 or 6.  Thanks Derek!   http://www.inthewoodshop.com/index.html

[Mick S 2527]

I agree with what Robby W said - it depends on how you remove the waste. If you use a scroll saw to remove the bulk, cleanup is with either a paring chisel or a decent Japanese true dovetail chisel would be the way I'd go. By true I mean they have a triangular cross section. The advantage of the Japanese dovetail chisel is that you would not have to switch back and forth to chop/pare. 

[pkinneb 3424]

8 hours ago, derekcohen said:

I have an article on my website that shows the process:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Great article thanks!

[derekcohen 1115]

Just for good measure, here is one on through dovetails:   http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[derekcohen 1115]

Chisels ...

When making skinny ("London style") dovetails, the chisels that are used to remove the tail waste ideally should fit the tails at the baseline, and have a minimal (sharp) land to avoid bruising the faces. I use 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4". 

The pins (of half blind sockets) are generally wide and one needs a 1/2", 3/4" and sometimes a 1" chisel. These can be firmers, if you prefer, although I choose minimal lands anyway. It is also very helpful to have a fishtail chisel to clear out the corners of the sockets. I like the Blue Spruce make for this.

If chopping hard woods, I use Koyamaichi dovetail chisels. Otherwise I like the Veritas PM-V11, for combined paring and chopping, or the Blue Spruce dovetail chisels for just paring.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Belle City WW 74]

On 6/27/2018 at 4:04 PM, Chestnut said:

Let me know what you figure out. I broached this subject far before i intended to make my purchase so i still haven't bought anything. Summer is busy at work and outside for me so woodworking gets set aside for a couple months.

Chestnut,

Well, I received my first ever Japanese Chisel today.  This is what I have been looking for, it is light, takes a wicked mean edge, and it finds the baseline with relative ease, they are also a joy to pair with.  They are not cheap for the good ones, but now I see what all the fuss was about.

I will add pics of the sharpening system I use, and the Barr Chisel of the same size for comparison;

Hope that helps,

John

[Chestnut 5480]

On 6/29/2018 at 7:38 AM, derekcohen said:

If chopping hard woods, I use Koyamaichi dovetail chisels. Otherwise I like the Veritas PM-V11, for combined paring and chopping, or the Blue Spruce dovetail chisels for just paring.

Thanks for your suggestion on chisels. Using the small Christmas gift my company gave me I put an order in at tools from japan. I read on his web store that things are changing over there and am hoping to be able to get a few in case they aren't available any longer in the future.

[Steve B Anderson 179]

On 4/17/2018 at 2:31 PM, Chestnut said:

I put this in advanced WW because i want a more advanced discussion. I'm strongly wanting to get better at hand cut dovetails. I've been trying it here and there (haven't been posting) and am so-so but i always feel like fat guy in a little coat when it comes to chisels and hitting the corners of dovetails. So I'm thinking about buying a couple dovetail chisels to start with and maybe add a couple more down the road.

I have the 4 set of Stanley 750s and they will probably stay as my go to for most operations but wouldn't turn down a chisel that is flexible and i could use in multiple places.

So this goes out to those of you that hand cut dovetails. What do you think is the better route to go down.

The options i know of:
Veritas PMV-11
Blue Spruce Dovetail
Ashley Iles Roundback
Japanese DT
Skew Chisels
Fishtail Chisels

Some of the options that i know of are pretty strait forward (top 3). I'm not to sure on the PMV-11 Chisels if the edges are sharp enough to work as DT chisels. They show them on their website as being suited for it. Should a conversation about the different metals be had, A2, O1, PMV-11, what ever Jappanese is?

What I'm unsure of is what the other options vs the known options. I understand that the Japanese chisels can range from ok to HOLY #(@$ on the cost scale. Skew chisels don't really seem like the solve the problem but create a sharpening problem. Fishtail chisels on the other hand seem perfect for DTs but still seem a bit more tricky to sharpen.

Also what options am i missing and not considering?

I just received my 1/4” and 1/2” Blue Spruce dovetail chisels. It took 4 weeks but it was worth the wait. They are almost to pretty to hit with a mallet. I’ll post a review with pics in the product review topic but I’m curious on what chisels you decided to go with.

[pkinneb 3424]

3 hours ago, Steve B Anderson said:

I just received my 1/4” and 1/2” Blue Spruce dovetail chisels. It took 4 weeks but it was worth the wait. They are almost to pretty to hit with a mallet. I’ll post a review with pics in the product review topic but I’m curious on what chisels you decided to go with.

I have Rob Cosman bench chisels, Ashly isles pairing chisels, and a couple Lie Nielsen specialty chisels. I do have some Blue Spruce marking tools the quality is amazing and they are beautiful to look at as well I think you will love them

[Chip Sawdust 798]

I just priced the LV chisels at $90+/ea which puts them out of my margin. eBay, anyone?

i actually like Buck chisels, although they make a crappy bench plane their chisels hold an edge well. But I have never seen a DT chisel of theirs. 

[Chestnut 5480]

I just got these 3 chisels in the other day. I ordered then January 10th and they shipped on my birthday. They were hand made to order so the time wasn't too bad in my opinion. Shipping from Japan is also slow. I am excited to put them to work but it'll be a few weeks until i can start my next project.

They are Koyamaichi  ground to the dovetail profile. I also splurged for ebony handles. I bought a 42mm a 15mm and a 6mm.

[Smashedfinger 21]

I always found that a good set of butt chisels are great for hand chopping dovetails. Crown makes a pretty decent set. Also take into consideration the size of saw you use, a slightly larger kerf makes the chiseling part go much easier.

[Chip Sawdust 798]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:44 AM, Chestnut said:

I just got these 3 chisels in the other day. I ordered then January 10th and they shipped on my birthday. They were hand made to order so the time wasn't too bad in my opinion.

So Chestnut how is your dovetailing going? 

I feel I finally reached “dovetail ability” and have found I can reach most areas with a bevel edge chisel. I have a 1/8” mortifying chisel that actually gets in there well, and a 5/64 chisel I made for cleaning out stringing grooves if it’s stubborn grain.

my full dovetails look better than my half-blinds but they’re all much better than the last time I focused on trying to make them. Something clicked in my brain finally!

[Chestnut 5480]

2 hours ago, Chip Sawdust said:

So Chestnut how is your dovetailing going? 

I feel I finally reached “dovetail ability” and have found I can reach most areas with a bevel edge chisel. I have a 1/8” mortifying chisel that actually gets in there well, and a 5/64 chisel I made for cleaning out stringing grooves if it’s stubborn grain.

my full dovetails look better than my half-blinds but they’re all much better than the last time I focused on trying to make them. Something clicked in my brain finally!

I haven't worked on a project that requires them yet but soon. I'm going to make a handtool cabinet based off of Matt Cremona's guild design just like the couple current builds on here.

My narrowest chisel before this was an 8mm i think so fairly wide. It was also fairly thick so yeah. I could probably have made it work but i didn't want to. I wanted a set of 3 nice Japanese chisels and if i was going to do it i might as well get the dovetail profile. I can confirm what Derek said about the white steel on these chisels they take an edge that is unlike anything in my shop. Other than maybe the old O1 steels but they go dull quite fast.