derekcohen Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 The only way to avoid run out is to veneer or laminate the fronts. I am not set up for that (I do not have a vacuum press). The method I used in dovetailing the fronts was aimed at angling the boards so as to minimise runout. I reckon that this was the best result possible using solid fronts. Regards from Perth Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, derekcohen said: The only way to avoid run out is to veneer or laminate the fronts. I am not set up for that (I do not have a vacuum press). The method I used in dovetailing the fronts was aimed at angling the boards so as to minimise runout. I reckon that this was the best result possible using solid fronts. Regards from Perth Derek I guess i meant playing with the grain direction in the material choice. My thought is some grain orientations are going to lend themselves to hide run out more than others are. I suppose the answer there is rift sawn or quarter sawn material. Or finding flat sawn boards that get close to rift sawn near the edges. No criticism just thoughts. I still think the outcome you had is amazing. *Note: apparently my web browser doesn't think sawn is a word. I always find it interesting how many woodworking terms are flagged as being misspelled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is an amazing project thanks for sharing!! I am picking up quite a few tips. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlyoak Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Built to the nth degree! Outstanding. I'm sure the finish on the drawer fronts will be eye popping. Well managed grains... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Even with the run out I think it will still end up being a note worthy piece when all is said and done. Re-sawing is another time when the grain change can have the final say in a project. I'd be interested in some photos of the Japanese hacksaw rasp. I had never seen or heard of those prior to you mentioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, Chet said: I'd be interested in some photos of the Japanese hacksaw rasp. I had never seen or heard of those prior to you mentioning it. https://www.amazon.com/Shinto-SR-10-9-Saw-Rasp/dp/B004DIHDU0 They work pretty good for removing stock quickly and they're cheap. I used one like this on my sculpted bar stools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Oh, okay I have seen those. From the angle in Derek's picture it was on edge and I thought it was something different. Are they a throw away tool or do they last a good while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted July 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 Shaping the curved faces of the drawers was a lot of work, and I was very pleased to see it done. Dusty and dirty.Not fun. Now the inside faces need to be done, and this will complete the the third stage of building the drawers (the first stage was to fit parallelogram-shaped drawer fronts into their recesses, and the second stage was dovetailing the fronts). The drawer front shaped on the outside only ... Blue tape (what else! ) is added to upper and lower edges ... The inside curve is scribed ... Pulled apart, the rear of the drawer front is chamfered with a round bottomed spokeshave to prevent spelching ... The waste is removed with rasps - this is an Auriou 10 grain ... Three rasps in all are used to remove and smooth, ending with this 15 grain .. The surface is refined and finished with a scraper .. Final shots of the completed drawer front ... Regards from Perth Derek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlyoak Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 I like the way your scraper looks. Is there a brand name to it? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted July 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 No brand name ... unless I call it Fred, or something. I made it from the rear end of a 3/16" thick O1 plane blade. It is sharpened by hollow grinding the flat face on the bench grinder. Regards from Perth Derek 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 Brief side bar...I am glad to see someone far beyond myself doing the scraper that way. There are times I use cards, and times I use a sharp 90° or even a heavy Hock back end. It all depends on the effect produced and how it fits your hand and style. Thanks for the journal. Enjoying the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 This chest is a lot of work for sure but it looks awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted July 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 This is a long post, and so feel free to skim through it. Who needs another dovetailing documentary? This one is specific to the back of a drawer, and so is different from the through dovetails which one might use on boxes. Also, I have a few techniques to share, ones that I do not see mentioned much, if at all. The drawer is one in the Apothecary chest. What has been shown before was the dovetailing hijinks needed for the curved fronts. This affects the drawer sides as well, since they are not equal in length. In fact, the length for the sides need to be measured individually. Here is a drawer front with sides ... It is fitted in the recess and positioned carefully (top right hand drawer) ... At the rear of the chest, the drawer sides are clamped to avoid any movement ... Now the drawer side length can be marked. The final length is 10mm in from the back of the recess. We are ready to begin joining the rear of the drawer. A drawer back has been added to the parts ... "Drop" (the gauge) for the width of the drawer back and transfer it to the ends of the drawer sides ... Now do the same for the drawer sides and transfer this to the drawer back ... With 24 drawers, it was quicker and easier to make up a template for positioning the tails ... Note that the tail alongside the groove (for the drawer bottom) is not a triangle, but one side is vertical (flanking the groove) ... Saw both drawer sides ... Time to remove the waste from the tails. First, create a chisel wall for all the tails ... Fretsaw the waste to 1-2mm from the line ... Remove the waste in thin layers for the cleanest finish. Note that the Tasmanian Oak is too thin (6.5m) to confidently pare half way by hand (better to use a hammer for precision). By taking very fine layers it is possible to push through the board without spelching the other side ... Blue tape on everything!! The drawer sides have blue tape ala the #140 trick (I wrote this up recently on my website). There are 4 layers. The drawer back has tape to aid in transferring marks (don't knock it if your eyesight is better than mine). Transfer the tails to the pin board ... The great thing about the blue tape method is that you only need one knife stroke to cut through. No sawing away to make an impression in the end grain. Saw against the tape. Go for it! Now remove the waste with a fretsaw. Again, aim for about 1mm above the line. For control, hold the saw handle very gently, and saw as lightly as you can - do not force the cut. Let the saw do the work. You will be rewarded with a straight line ... I saw away the ends about 1mm above the line ... In years past, I used to saw to the line. I now see more value in paring to the line. What you will notice is the chisel wall around the section. I am reminded of David Charlesworth's method of removing end waste. He calls his process "tenting". In this he pares upward, reducing the waste all the time. In my method, this is unnecessary since the chisel wall protects the sides and you can see when you are getting close to level ... Of all the aspects in through dovetailing, I think that removing the waste between the pins is the hardest. This is again where I was reminded of David's tenting method (but which he does not use in this section, only at the ends). Again the chisel wall aides in enabling the chisel to register against the line without any danger of going over it. The chisel here is PM HSS, and very tough (and sharp!). The blade is driven at an angle away from the sides ... Turning the board over, and repeating the manoeuvre, the result is a tent ... I have two methods for removing the remaining waste. The first is to pare the tent, slowly reducing the angle. Since you are paring upwards, there is now danger to spelching the opposite side of the board ... The second is a side-to-side sweep, which slices away the waste ... Finished ... The parts are now assembled. From the top .... ... and the bottom ... Fitting the drawer ... My plan is to set the drawers back a mm or two ... Any thoughts about this? Regards from Perth Derek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeslayer Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 hour ago, derekcohen said: Any thoughts about this? I have some thoughts, you need some serious help, probably from a whole team of head doctors Really Derek this piece makes my head spin, in a good way, seeing what you can do is an inspiration to all of us here on the forum. the attention to detail, the way you explain every step is inspiring and the work is at a level that i think is at the top of the woodworking community. thanks for this great ride. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 I think I like it, it creates a small shadow line. What was your other thought, to have them flush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted July 16, 2018 Report Share Posted July 16, 2018 47 minutes ago, Chet said: I think I like it, it creates a small shadow line. What was your other thought, to have them flush? I respectfully disagree. I think the uneven shadow line caused by a combination of the curved front and the changing angle to the light the curved front causes makes it look more like a construction mistake. This is 100% opinion. I think if you wanted the shadow line i'd do it with a slight bevel and keep the fronts flush so the shadow line doesn't get thicker across the drawer front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I think @Chestnut has a good point. In the photo above, the curve of the drawer front does give an uneven appearance to the shadow. While I think a slight setback is good, perhaps a slight chamfer on the dividers around the drawer could help provide a more even shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 The chest will end up in the entrance hall, which has a glass-fronted door. There is lots of raking light, and this will show up the shadow lines. Here is another piece I built, some year ago. A pair of campaign/military chests. Again, the reveals add a modern touch (not a great photo, sorry) ... Trying for a close up ... I am also aware that it is Winter in Perth and it is wet. The wood is now at its most swollen, and will likely shrink in the dry heat of summer. Trying to keep the drawer ends flush with the face of the chest is a fools errand. A set back will aid in avoiding this issue as well. I did consider chamfering the fronts, but that has the likelihood of making it all look like a raised panel, which I do not want.Regards from Perth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 You make compelling arguments. I'd go with your gut you have heaps more experience than i do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I have learned so much from this already. Every time @derekcohen posts it’s an educational experience. Thanks so much! As far as shadow lines go. I have found that having a shadow line, no matter how it’s made, helps define a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I'm not qualified to comment on much about this incredible project. But I do know that trying to make those drawer fronts all perfectly flush will work exactly once. It will look great right after it's done & then will never be perfect again. Humidity changes & wear will take care of that. Been down the road of chasing perfection that cannot possibly be maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Shadow lines really enhance woodwork. Clean simple pieces without a lot of moldings and raised panels really benefit from shadow lines. It's like each drawer front is picture framed with the grain being the artwork. Is your fretsaw one of those titanium ones ? I've been lusting for one since they came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Quote Is your fretsaw one of those titanium ones ? I've been lusting for one since they came out. Steve, I think I have at least 5 of them. Really. Some are prototypes. I was partly responsible for the Knew Concepts fretsaws being made for woodworkers. The story is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/KnewConceptsFretsaw.html There is another review, here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/KnewConceptsBirdcageFretsaw.html Regards from Perth Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeslayer Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 hours ago, wdwerker said: Shadow lines really enhance woodwork. Clean simple pieces without a lot of moldings and raised panels really benefit from shadow lines. It's like each drawer front is picture framed with the grain being the artwork. I agree completely Steve, you nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted July 22, 2018 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 We are getting close. The drawers are done. There is still the base to be built, but the I feel that the hard yards are won. The following was completed this weekend ... One of the joys with hand tools is simply planing. Nothing special, just planing wood and creating wonderful shavings. This was the final dimensioning of the drawer sides prior to glue up ... More planing - this time the panels for the drawer bottoms. These are 6mm thick. With drawers this small and narrow (100mm wide and 100mm high), one probably could run a drawer bottom along the length. I decided to plan for expansion along the length, so the grain runs side-to-side. The panels are Tasmanian Oak ... The panels are ripped on the table saw, and one endt is shaped to the drawer front using the template for that row ... Here is a glued up drawer ready for the drawer bottom ... Extra long at this stage ... ... and trimmed to size (the extra "tongue" is to aid in removal, if needed) ... There is some expansion that can take place into the drawer front, as the groove there is deep enough (5mm at the front and 3mm at the sides). Some expansion can also take place to the rear. What I have done is drill an over size screw hole ... The screw needs to sit flush with the underside, as will become apparent in a while ... I am very happy with the drawers. They are tight and crisp, and all slide in-and-out their recess smoothly. I am also very pleased with an idea I came up with for the drawer stops. Drawer stops are very important in this chest as the drawers are inset by 3mm, and a stop at the front, behind the drawer front, will enable this gap to be maintained through the year. These stops are a little different. I searched the Internet to see if anything like these have been made, sold or used before. Nada, zip. I am amazed. The concept is so simple, and so easy to install. Please make and use them. I think that you will like the idea. Adjustable drawer stops ... I planed down some scrap Black Walnut. These strips ended up 20mm wide ... 40mm lengths were marked off, and the piece attached to my router-morticing jig ... Here's the complete set up. It was used to rout out 10mm long mortices ... Sawing away two strips, you are left with this. It was planed to a thickness of 3mm ... These were cut up and the fronts rounded. The reason for the round section is that it will butt up against the rear of the drawer front, which is curved ... These are screwed into the drawer recess. They can be fine-adjusted with the screw. All pretty obvious, really. The low profile allows the drawer to slide in without obstruction. With the drawers done, the knobs were attached. These are cast iron and small (just 22mm across). Yet they seen ginormous after looking at bare drawer fronts for so long. I was thinking of blacking the cast iron, but I now quite like the grey. I think that it adds to the modern feel of this chest. Your thoughts? The boards have been cut for the back board and the base. Next time. Regards from Perth Derek 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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