Sanding Procedures

[Coop]

Kev and I have been chatting about the starting and finishing grits and he and I differ slightly, but to each his own and whatever works for you. Care to share your progress from start to finish, whether the start is from drum sander or straight from the planer, or vice versa, to finished product. There can be no wrong answer, just wonder what’s out there. 

[krtwood]

It depends on the material and destination, but typically 180 in the drum sander to 120, 180, 220 with the ROS.  I find the finish from the drum sander to be so much worse than the ROS that it's faster to go back up a grit.  Sometimes I skip the 180 and go straight to 220.  Sometimes I skip the 180 and 220   If it was straight from the jointer/planer/table saw I would start with either 80 or 120.

On the edge sander I use 80, 120, 220.

[lewisc]

I typically start at 60-80g and work up to 220g with the ROS. I'm eternally frustrated with swirl marks though. I've put a new pad on the sander to see if it makes a difference but will need to do some testing to compare. 

I've got 80g running in the drum sander which might be slightly on the rough side. It definitely needs going back to 60g from the drum sander. I picked up a Veritas Bevel Up Smoother recently for my dining table top and have used that on couple of cutting boards which eliminated all of the low end sanding. I used 220g after the BUS though.

[TerryMcK]

80>120>180 and maybe 240 (we can no longer get 220 over in the UK) in a 5" ROS.

I do change the speed of the ROS when getting higher up the grit range. Also the dust extract has an air bleed on it. This can be opened to reduce the vacuum and this prevents the ROS pad from pulling down too tightly. @lewisc that may be the cause of your swirl marks -  rotational speed and suction too high. 

[lewisc]

Yeah, I’ve tried a few things. New sanding discs, light pressure on the timber, lowering the suction and lowering the speed as I go higher in the grit. 

I glued a board up yesterday, sanded it today with a new backing pad on and it seems alright. I couldn’t notice any swirling. I think a big factor might come from using too much pressure. 

[wtnhighlander]

@TerryMcK , do you slow the ROS at higher grits, or speed it up?  I recently obtained a sander with variable speed, and haven't determined how best to use it yet.

My progression starts at 80 most of the time, maybe 60 if I need to level a joint. My hand planing skills aren't up to using that tool for a surface finish. From there, typically 100 > 120 > 150 > 180 > 220 > 320. I prefer to have an extra-fine surface before applying finish. If I'm using something like danish oil, I'll wet-sand it in with 400 or 600.

[JohnG]

3 hours ago, TerryMcK said:

I do change the speed of the ROS when getting higher up the grit range

Do you go faster or slower as you get higher in the grits? I usually leave the speed alone, but only because I haven't been told or tried otherwise.

I have noticed that I get some swirl marks when I hook up the shop vac to the ROS, especially when I come back from a break and start sanding with the hook and loop on the ROS base instead of a sanding disc.

edit: wtnhighlander beat me to the question.

[difalkner]

80-100 on the drum sander only if I need to hog a lot of stock and the piece won't fit in the DW735 planer.  But most of the time I start with 120 on everything - drum sander, ROS, hand, block, etc.  Then I just step through the grits up to 220 for most lacquer jobs, 400 for French polish.  End grain cutting boards go through the drum sander many, many times with each grit 120-150-220 followed by the ROS with 220-320-400.

David

[Chestnut]

I start and finish with 180. Only bought the 1 grit.

[Mick S]

I start with 120 on the drum sander and move to 100 or 120 on the ROS, depending on the species of wood. The drum sander scratches are harder to remove than ROS scratches, probably because of the hard drum backing up the paper. Then I move through 150, 180 and 220 ROS followed by 220 hand sanding.

[..Kev]

I pretty much do what Krtwood does..  If I have 120 on my drum sander, I step back to 80 on the ROS.  I typically only sand to 180 when I'm applying a film finish.  I block out the film finish with 400 between grits.  I'll sand to 220 if I'm using an oil finish.

So, 120 on the DS, then 80,120,180 on the ROS.  Terry's thoughts on the speed of the ROS is interesting, will have to play with that a bit!

[lewisc]

This is a sanding guide I was recommend for speeds and grit used. 

https://tutorwood.com/2011/08/27/how-to-get-the-most-from-your-rotex-part-1/

A summary:

Sanding speeds

To achieve the best result results in your work, speed is another important factor to consider. The main things you have to remember are, the coarser the paper the higher the speed.
Coarse paper on slow speed tends to dig in and ‘bite’ the work, which can lead to scratches and swirls than can be bloody hard to get out. Coarse paper on high speed tends to ‘skim’ over the work and while it may take a little longer you’ll achieve a more controlled result.
When you start sanding and are using, a 60 grit paper start with the sander on speed 6 and use the rotex, random orbit method as described above. As you start moving into progressively finer grades, gradually begin to lower the sander speed. Use the chart below as a rough guide for sander speed related to sanding grit.

Sanding grit. Speed
40. 6
60. 6
80. 6
120. 5
150. 5
180. 5
240. 4
320. 4
400. 3
500. 3
800. 2
1000. 2
1200. 1
1500 & finer 1

This chart is a suggested range only and results can vary depending on the type of timber that you choose.
The transition point when sanding is 400 grit. This is the stage where you stop sanding the timber and start burnishing it. From 400 up you’ll start to see the surface of the timber develop and become smoother with every sanding stage that you complete. Don’t forget to feel the timber as you sand it so that you become more familiar with how each sanding grade contributes to the overall finish. Keep using the rotex / random orbital sanding technique until you pass 1000 grit. From experience, I’ve found that when you reach 1200 grit switch to using the rotex mode only. You should begin to see the timber surface begin to develop a lovely luster and the surface will begin to shine. This happens, because the super fine grits that we have been using are burnishing the timber surface and closing off the pore of the wood which gives us this glass like finish.

[curlyoak]

Drum 100. RO start anywhere from 60 to 100. 150. 220, 320 400 in between varnish. I use a 5" makita. Good sander. Drum is 16-32 plus jet. I use a 3 x 21 makita belt sander. I use that for removing material. I might run it on the bias for large surfaces that need flatness adjustment. I have a 12" delta disc sander. A gem. And a small cheap stationary 6" belt. I have some grit sponges. Good for profile edges.

[TerryMcK]

3 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

@TerryMcK , do you slow the ROS at higher grits, or speed it up?  I recently obtained a sander with variable speed, and haven't determined how best to use it yet.

My progression starts at 80 most of the time, maybe 60 if I need to level a joint. My hand planing skills aren't up to using that tool for a surface finish. From there, typically 100 > 120 > 150 > 180 > 220 > 320. I prefer to have an extra-fine surface before applying finish. If I'm using something like danish oil, I'll wet-sand it in with 400 or 600.

I should have said, the higher the grit the slower I set the rotational speed of the ROS.

[wdwerker]

Drum 150 then ROS 120 , 180, 220/240, 320 between coats & 400 before final coat.  2 light drum passes on each face is quicker than switching grits.  60, 80, 120 ,150, 220/240 drum if flattening panels or cutting boards. Maybe start at 36 if a board is very rough. 

Pencil marking faces to keep track of what is done. Digital calipers and digital height gauge on the drum sander is proving great when extra parts are need to match previously dressed stock. The harder the wood being sanded the smaller the adjustments between passes. Maple gets 1/16 th to 1/32nd of a turn along with more frequent cleaning with a frozen crepe rubber block. Freezing slows the wear &  cleaning affect improves.  I often have 2 blocks frozen & switch as they thaw out if I'm sanding all afternoon.

Thanks for the speed chart Lewis ! I've been running much faster than those recommendations.

[drzaius]

I don't have a drum sander , so it's the ROS for most sanding. I have disks down to 60, but rarely start below 120, then 180 & 220. Then I like to  finish by using 220 to hand sand with the grain

If there's a lot of material to be removed, I usually try to plane it down. I'm not nearly to the point where I can get a finished surface with a plane though.

[pkinneb]

120 on the drum sander, and up to ROS 180 on most woods some go to 220, 320 or 400 between coats of finish

[Chestnut]

28 minutes ago, drzaius said:

I don't have a drum sander , so it's the ROS for most sanding. I have disks down to 60, but rarely start below 120, then 180 & 220. Then I like to  finish by using 220 to hand sand with the grain

If there's a lot of material to be removed, I usually try to plane it down. I'm not nearly to the point where I can get a finished surface with a plane though.

Taking the time and effort to get close to a finish ready surface off a hand plan is worth the effort. With enough time i can do it but i usually stop short and then hit everything with just 180 grit. I despise sanding but when there is so little that needs to be done it became a bit more enjoyable. Standing holding a sand for hours on end moving through grits ... just  ... sucks.

[Geoffrey]

From the planer (DW-735), I start with 120 grit with the ETS 150/5 until a pencil line is removed.  Then two slow passes with 180 grit, and two more passes with 220 grit. After that, I start wiping on varnish, with 320 grit hand sanding if the finish does not feel smooth. If I keep the shop air clean enough, I can get up to five coats of gloss varnish down before the 320 grit sanding is needed. After that, one final coat of satin varnish goes on.

After letting it cure a bit, I do a light 1000, 1500, and then 2000 grit hand sanding to finish it off.

[Pwk5017]

I sold my drum sander a couple months ago, but I cant say ive missed it too much. I will slightly regret selling it when i need to sand large crotch pieces etc. Until then, my sanding regimen goes 80>100>120/150>180>220. If it is a large surface, i will start with the rotex. Do 80>100>120 on the rotex quickly and then move on to the 150/5 with 120>180>220. I don skip grits when moving from the rotex to the 150/5, because the rotex in rotex mode usually leaves a coarse scratch pattern. The 6" sanders help a lot on large surfaces. Between the larger planer, the domino, and the 6" sanders, i really dont miss using the drum sander on most projects. It is the ability to minutely dimension wide things with zero risk of tearout that i miss slightly. 

[Chet]

I have 120 on my drum sander.  After that I go to 80, 120, 150 and 180 with my random orbit sander.  When I block my finish i usually use 320 after the first coat and 400 there after.  I use the double sided sandpaper from Epoch Wood for this,  I really like the stuff.

[Isaac]

I don't have a drum sander, I start with 100 or occasionally 80 if the surface is rough (from hand shaping with a rasp or similar). I then go up to 150 and 220. I alternate between my cheap ROS and my makita 1/4 sheet palm sander and generally finish with hand sanding. I like my final strokes to be in the direction of the grain and it takes very little time to do it. This is often necessary anyways because the sanders can't get into tight corners and such. 

When sanding in between coats of finish, all bets are off and I'll go way up to 800 or higher, which can yield glassy smooth textures. 

[Cliff]

I do 80/120/180/220 almost always. I do like to do 320 after that but really tend to get impatient and skip it. I only have RO and hand sanding. The current project, raised dog food bowls x 3 - I stopped at 180. These things will be under constant abuse so I just don't care. 

The guys on woodtalk podcast I think said they do 180 as the finish grit, but FWW podcast indicated they go 320, 400, 600 even. 

[..Kev]

4 minutes ago, Cliff said:

The guys on woodtalk podcast I think said they do 180 as the finish grit, but FWW podcast indicated they go 320, 400, 600 even. 

I think it really depends on the finish you're using.  If you're using a film finish then, there's no real benefit in going over 180.

[pkinneb]

12 minutes ago, ..Kev said:

I think it really depends on the finish you're using.  If you're using a film finish then, there's no real benefit in going over 180.

Exactly.