Slightlyoutofsquare

Sharpening Help

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Hi All: 

newbie here and first go at sharpening. Here’s what I’ve done thus far and was hoping someone could help if I am doing something wrong. 

The chisel I used was a Stanley Sweetheart 750 1/2 inch. New. From what I read it came to me at  30 degrees. 

I attempted to flatten the back on a X-Coarse DMT Diamond Duo Sharp Sharpener. I put black sharpie on the back of the chisel, spritzed the plate and moved over the stone in small circles over the face of the stone and when the sharpie was gone I flipped the plate over, put more sharpie and used the Coarse side doing the same. 

I did this same routine using Shapton Stones: 1000, 5000 and 8000 grits. 

I then placed the chisel in a Veritas MK 2 honing device set to 30and went through the grits. Also the micro bevel indicator was set with arrow facing down.

Questions: 

when we talk about the secondary bevel is it distinct only by light and polish? Or should it be a distinctly different surface plane that was created? I can never tell in the sharpening videos and what I got from my final product did not appear to give me a second surface but a surface that looked very different from the remaining section of the area. Did any of that actually make sense? 

 

Is the secondary bevel different from a micro bevel? If so, how do I know I have both? 

Does it matter how much of the back has the polished finish? Whole thing? First few inches? 

Also... why are the handles falling off the chisels? They come off every single one so I’m assuming it’s purposeful but it’s irritating. What is the purpose of this? 

May any rate, any feedback is helpful! Thank you in advanced! 

Pic 1: the chisel I allegedly finished lol I am guessing I wasn’t giving even pressure on both sides of the honing device and that’s why it’s curved? 

Pic 2: polished enough to reflect camera ;-) but not sure if I need to go further down the back.

Pic 3 and 4: comparison to chisel that hasn’t been done yet.

Pic 5: profile of chisel I sharpened...allegedly. 

 

Lark 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Slightlyoutofsquare said:

Questions: 

when we talk about the secondary bevel is it distinct only by light and polish?  Light and polish is plenty. Or should it be a distinctly different surface plane that was created? I can never tell in the sharpening videos and what I got from my final product did not appear to give me a second surface but a surface that looked very different from the remaining section of the area. If you didn't have a secondary bevel your entire edge would look the same. Did any of that actually make sense? 


Is the secondary bevel different from a micro bevel? If so, how do I know I have both? Same thing

Does it matter how much of the back has the polished finish? Whole thing? First few inches? really just need an 1" or so unless your anal like me and want the whole back polished for looks, functionally not necessary.

Also... why are the handles falling off the chisels? They come off every single one so I’m assuming it’s purposeful but it’s irritating. What is the purpose of this? 

May any rate, any feedback is helpful! Thank you in advanced! Yes they do and yes it can be  annoying :) 

Pic 1: the chisel I allegedly finished lol I am guessing I wasn’t giving even pressure on both sides of the honing device and that’s why it’s curved? Correct

Pic 2: polished enough to reflect camera ;-) but not sure if I need to go further down the back. That should be functionally fine

Pic 3 and 4: comparison to chisel that hasn’t been done yet. Looks good but you don't need to go that far just the edge on the first sharpening. once the back is flat (the most important part) it should only take a couple passes on each grit to get you a polished microbevel.

Pic 5: profile of chisel I sharpened...allegedly. Honestly not sure if its the picture or not but it still appears you have a flat on the end which would not be good. Ultimately once the back is flat you want those to faces to make a point, if that makes  sense.

 

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You only need to flatten the back an inch or so.   Unless you're 5 years old and plan to live 80 years, with proper sharpening, you'll never get past an inch of metal removed.

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Hi Lark

Is the secondary bevel different from a micro bevel? If so, how do I know I have both? 

Yes, they are different, however it is common for many to call them the same. A secondary bevel is a bevel that is honed at a higher angle (e.g. 30 degrees)  to the primary bevel (e.g. 25 degrees). A micro bevel is a tiny (hence "micro") bevel. You can have a micro bevel as a secondary bevel, however when hone flat on a hollow grind (that is, without changing the angle), it is not a secondary bevel.

Does it matter how much of the back has the polished finish? Whole thing? First few inches? 

Ideally, the entire length of the chisel or plane back is flat. But this does not mean polished. The back of a plane blade needs to be flat/coplanar in order that it registers securely. The back of a chisel may need to register on a guide or jig for paring. It is sufficient to polish the immediate back of the bevel, which may be as small as 1/8". It is just easier to do 1".

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Did you initially re-form the primary bevel, or just work from the factory grind?

The wavy back line of your polished bevel could simply be the transition to an uneven factory grind. 

Keep in mind that having secondary or 'micro' bevels is not a requirement. It is, instead, a technique for reducing the surface area that must be ground away to recreate the sharp leading edge. You should initially shape the entire bevel to 25 degrees, for example. You COULD simply polish the entire bevel at that angle, and achieve the same degree of 'sharpness', but at the cost of more steel wearing away each time you sharpen. By creating a small secondary bevel at the cutting edge, you must hone ONLY that small bevel each time you touch up the tool. Once a fine edge is established, you might use nothing more than polishing compound on a strop to keep the tool working for many hours of cutting time. When, at last, the strop can not refresh the edge, a few strokes (like single digits) of the secondary bevel against your finest stone will likely get you back to work.

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You've chosen a good set up with the Veritas jig and Shapton stones.  My set up is similar.  And like you, I ink the bevel whenever I sharpen.  It's easy and fast and tells me what I'm doing.

wtnhighlander may be right that the primary bevel was not flat from the factory, but  I can tell you from experience that if you put uneven pressurse on the MKII jig you can get uneven results.  (In fact this technique can be used to put a slight camber or gentle curve on the cutting edge).  

I think that 1/2" may be usable.  You could try it on scrap and see how it behaves.

As you tune up the other chisels you might want to try reforming the primary bevel then adding a secondary that's 2 mm or so long.  

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Get Ron Hock's book The Perfect Edge and all your questions about sharpening will be answered for any woodworking tool you'll ever want to sharpen. Popular Woodworking publishes it; I got my copy off Amazon. 

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The suggestion to try it out is good if sharp, you should be able to pare end grain easily. As for the handles, they tend to loosen in the winter as the wood dries. Spray the handle with hair spray, reinsert it into the handle, and then rap the end of the handle straight down on the bench, and it should stop coming off as easily. At least, it worked for me. 

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