Sawstop Inline Router Table


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1 hour ago, Mick S said:

I actually went back in your other thread to see if there was a router table in the background, with the idea of making that exact suggestion. It's a real space saver for me. I prefer having on the right end because I rarely have work wide enough to necessitate moving the fence all the way out there. On the left, it pretty much requires taking the fence off and lowering the cutter to use the saw.

Yes, I leave the miter gauge on the left. If I'm cutting miters for boxes I use a sled on the right side.

Yep haven’t used it yet but I have one. 

And now I doubt I will because I will just add it to the table saw. I think I will do the right side as well that way IF I ever decided I wanted to add the cross cut feature i could do so without having a router there. 

 

11E0EAE8-C07F-44FF-A201-6CA0D9A13AB6.jpeg

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There's a very common expression used around here - Buy once, cry once. So at the risk of opening a can of worms, I'm going to recommend that you look into jointer/planer combination machines in your search for those two pieces of equipment. Your budget seems more open than the average person setting up a shop, but your space is limited and you need to work into what you do have available. To that end, the combination J/P machines make a lot of sense. They take up roughly the same space as a jointer of the same capacity, but will give you more capacity for the money (particularly in jointer width) and more mass, which is important, since the two machines together weigh more than separates.

The DeWalt 735 planer has been brought up here, and it is, IMO the best planer for the money on the market. The hidden cost of it, though, is the noise level. It screams. In a residential area you have to be careful about when you can use it. I had one for years before switching to a Hammer combo. I really don't have to worry much about neighbors complaining since we live outside the city. But I switched because the noise made me cranky.

The downside to the combos is the switchover time from one to the other, but that can be mitigated greatly - I average about 45 seconds with my setup. 

A couple of brands I would recommend considering are SCM/Minimax and Hammer (made by Felder). Both make J/P combos in 12" and 16" widths, Hammer also offers a 10", but for the difference in price, why not go bigger or go homer? Both are great machines and the differences are a Coke vs Pepsi argument.

 

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1 hour ago, Mick S said:

The downside to the combos is the switchover time from one to the other, but that can be mitigated greatly - I average about 45 seconds with my setup. 

A couple of brands I would recommend considering are SCM/Minimax and Hammer (made by Felder). Both make J/P combos in 12" and 16" widths, Hammer also offers a 10", but for the difference in price, why not go bigger or go homer? Both are great machines and the differences are a Coke vs Pepsi argument.

 

I'm pretty sure his shop is in a basement which adds a huge level of difficulty. Some of the j/p machines are too big and heavy to navigate into a basement shop. I had to disassemble my jointer and planer to move them in and I'm not sure that is possible with the combo machines. I don't know the full situation just thought I'd add the extra information. So the biggest downside is their size and weight.

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5 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I'm pretty sure his shop is in a basement which adds a huge level of difficulty. Some of the j/p machines are too big and heavy to navigate into a basement shop. I had to disassemble my jointer and planer to move them in and I'm not sure that is possible with the combo machines. I don't know the full situation just thought I'd add the extra information. So the biggest downside is their size and weight.

All the more reason not to go to the DeWalt 735.

I decent rigger would have no problem getting it into a basement. I once watched a rigger put a 14,000 pound CNC router through an opening with ¼" to spare total width, go down a ramp, make a 9 foot lateral move off the edge of the ramp before placing the machine. In 10 minutes. Another time I sold a router that had a 10 foot by 40 foot processing area (boat building application). The total machine width was just under 14 feet and had to weigh 25,000 lbs. The riggers put it through a 10 foot overhead door by tilting the whole machine to a 45 degree angle.

 

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52 minutes ago, Mick S said:

All the more reason not to go to the DeWalt 735.

I decent rigger would have no problem getting it into a basement. I once watched a rigger put a 14,000 pound CNC router through an opening with ¼" to spare total width, go down a ramp, make a 9 foot lateral move off the edge of the ramp before placing the machine. In 10 minutes. Another time I sold a router that had a 10 foot by 40 foot processing area (boat building application). The total machine width was just under 14 feet and had to weigh 25,000 lbs. The riggers put it through a 10 foot overhead door by tilting the whole machine to a 45 degree angle.

 

I wasn't saying one way or another for or against any piece of equipment. Just providing information.  My personal basement access has stairs laid out in a way that I just couldn't move a J/P in.

That said my DW735 with HH wasn't that loud and was not disruptive outside my shop. You could hear it obviously, but my  TS75  track saw is still the loudest tool by far only barley beating out the routers. This is from the many complaints I receive every time i need to use the track saw. My cordless 55 is much quieter.

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Of course it depends on the layout of the location, but if there's a way, a good rigger will figure it out.

As for the noise, maybe it's a personal sensitivity to certain frequencies but I quickly got in the habit of using foam plugs in my ears with my 3M earmuffs over that when I used my 735.

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14 minutes ago, Mick S said:

maybe it's a personal sensitivity to certain frequencies

I think there is something to this.  I bought a pair on "better" ear muffs just because of my 735 and to a degree it still bothers me.  I am comfortable now but its still an ear tickler.

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I don't want to sound like I'm arguing not my intention. The deal breaker was if I needed to hire someone and pay a lot to move a machine in the extra cost pushed the combo out of consideration. I'd hate to hire someone to move something have them get to the corner on my sitars and then get stuck. Then I'm not only out the cost of the mover but what do I do with the machine as returning it would probably be a nightmare or expensive again. It just wasn't worth the risk for the minimal benefit.

I do agree that the hammers and felders are awesome machines. Folks that don't have a shop in an awful location, like mine, should consider them first.

I do love being able to go from my jointer to my planer in seconds and abuse the freedom more than some people give it credit. Doing the prototype work on my chairs I'd probably have switched like 5 times an hour. Not a problem with the machine more a problem with my lack of planning ahead of time and taking advantage that I didn't need to.

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No doubt that a rigger costs money. That’s the downside. On the upside, they generally will send out someone in advance of even a quote to survey the lay of the land. They’ll look into what’s being moved, size of the crate, any chance of being broken down into smaller components and then make a plan. That’s what you’re paying for. 
And they’re bonded. And you’re standing to the side watching rather than putting yourself in danger. I’m not trying to argue either, but from what I can see of MJC’s situation he should consider the combo J/P and use a rigger if it’s going into a basement, IMO. 

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Is there a way to accomplish the consultation before a machine is purchased. Just curious because I'd LOVE a to have a nice 16" band saw in my shop. I know the saw alone probably make the corner but I just don't know if it'd make the corner with the equipment they need to move it. Stairs with corners are stupid. I don't know why they designed them they way they did....

 

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45 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Is there a way to accomplish the consultation before a machine is purchased. Just curious because I'd LOVE a to have a nice 16" band saw in my shop. I know the saw alone probably make the corner but I just don't know if it'd make the corner with the equipment they need to move it. Stairs with corners are stupid. I don't know why they designed them they way they did....

 

Drew, all you should need is the spec sheet for the machine, although some idea what sort of pallet it comes on will help. Stuff I deal with at work involves moving hundreds of tons on occasion. The right rigger will have no trouble making it work.

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I'm just not sure how that works going through a finished house. It's not like they have beams or walls they can brace on or use. Sorry for the hijack i'll have to ask more questions if/when i get to buying a large tool like a 16" saw.

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1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

I'm just not sure how that works going through a finished house. It's not like they have beams or walls they can brace on or use. Sorry for the hijack i'll have to ask more questions if/when i get to buying a large tool like a 16" saw.

How much do you expect the saw to weigh? A healthy pair of movers can manipulate an astounding mass, using just those strap harness carrier slings. Or even a sturdy hand truck.

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3 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said:

How much do you expect the saw to weigh? A healthy pair of movers can manipulate an astounding mass, using just those strap harness carrier slings. Or even a sturdy hand truck.

Probably in the 500 lbs range. I was looking between the Laguna LT16HD, SCM 16" saw (Ithink it was a forumla series), Hammer N4400, and the PM1500.

I like the Laguna best but it has a 5hp motor and I don't really want to deal with a 40 amp breaker. But 5hp is common in this range with the exception of the PM1500 which is tied on the bottom of the list with the hammer. I can't remember why I didn't care for the hammer but there was something....oh yeah the resaw height is no better than what I have now and the unit is bigger physically than the others with 18" wheels vs 16"

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3 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Is there a way to accomplish the consultation before a machine is purchased. Just curious because I'd LOVE a to have a nice 16" band saw in my shop. I know the saw alone probably make the corner but I just don't know if it'd make the corner with the equipment they need to move it. Stairs with corners are stupid. I don't know why they designed them they way they did....

 

Yes, that’s normally how riggers operate. They send out a lead guy to analyze and coordinate the move before the equipment arrives. 

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11 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I like the Laguna best but it has a 5hp motor and I don't really want to deal with a 40 amp breaker.

The SCM is 4.8 Hp. I have the 20" model. Beast. 

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30 minutes ago, Mick S said:

The SCM is 4.8 Hp. I have the 20" model. Beast. 

Yeah 5hp on a 16" saw seems like overkill. I don't really need 16" of resaw either I just want the larger wheels to add a bit more throat depth and to maybe have blades last longer before the snap on me.

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  • 3 months later...

I currently have a 52" PM2000 with a self-built router table in the extension table.  I've made the decision to make the switch to a Sawstop for the piece of mind of the safety.   I'm leaning towards the 52" Industrial.  I like the thought of a cast router table but I have a few concerns.  From what I can tell the router bit is only 8" from the end of the table.  This doesn't seem like much table surface to support the work piece.  I positioned the bit 14" from the edge on the table I'm currently using and that has seemed to work well for me.  Also, I've never had a need for a miter slot on my table and I'm worried the two slots on the cast table would be more annoying than useful.  They break up the already small area that supports the work piece and I can see a lot of small things (screws, pencils, etc.) constantly finding their way into the slots (I'm space-limited and have to use the extension table as an assembly table at times).  What's your thoughts on these concerns?

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On 1/27/2020 at 11:20 AM, Mick S said:

Of course it depends on the layout of the location, but if there's a way, a good rigger will figure it out.

As for the noise, maybe it's a personal sensitivity to certain frequencies but I quickly got in the habit of using foam plugs in my ears with my 3M earmuffs over that when I used my 735.

 

On 1/27/2020 at 11:38 AM, Chet said:

I think there is something to this.  I bought a pair on "better" ear muffs just because of my 735 and to a degree it still bothers me.  I am comfortable now but its still an ear tickler.

 

On 1/27/2020 at 12:05 PM, Minnesota Steve said:

I have a DW735 in my basement shop.   It is really loud...   It's the one tool that generates complaints from the family.

There's really no way to soundproof the shop either because it's the same room as the furnace, and I think that's how the sound is traveling.

Duh, I just turn off my hearing aids and they become plugs.:P

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  • 3 months later...

I need a new miter table and am thinking of this set-up for my Sawstop cabinet saw. Now that you've used it, does it work as expected and how is the fence system? I was thinking of using a different fence system (Incra or Woodpeckers) though am still checking if they will fit this setup. Also, is the opening made for a typical router plate of 11-3/4" x 9-1/4" x 3/8" plate with 3/4" radius corners?

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8 hours ago, Joe V said:

I need a new miter table and am thinking of this set-up for my Sawstop cabinet saw. Now that you've used it, does it work as expected and how is the fence system? I was thinking of using a different fence system (Incra or Woodpeckers) though am still checking if they will fit this setup. Also, is the opening made for a typical router plate of 11-3/4" x 9-1/4" x 3/8" plate with 3/4" radius corners?

Still love it. Love it enough that when my new sliding table saw gets here in December I'll be mounting it to the new saw. 

The Incra and Woodpeckers fences are both very good fences. I personally think the Incra is overkill unless you're planning on doing dovetails and box joints on the router table. I don't need the incremental spacing it offers. A friend was in my shop recently and saw my setup. He had the Incra table, complete with dust box, etc. One look at mine and he asked me to give it away to one of my students.

I want a fence that stays coplaner and aligned from one side to the other, stays 90 degrees to the table and is easy to set. Mine hits on all counts. 

The insert opening is standard.

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