applejackson

SawStop inadvertent brake activation causes

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I had my saw about 5 years before an accidental firing.  Sawstop confirmed it was a miss-fire (and replaced the cartridge for free).  The cartridges have a chip that tells them why the trip occurred and how long after initiation.  We never really figured out why mine tripped, ambiguous messaging.  A number of possible solutions, but nothing concrete, so I'm not really sure what not to do in the future, but so far no more problems, so ?????.  In my case, the trigger happened on startup, so at least my dado blade wasn't damaged (trip occurred 400 ms after startup, so the trip was not very dramatic, as the saw blade had barely started and consequently minimal force/impact on the blade).   I do cut a lot of different materials on my saw, doing fine woodworking as well as a fair amount of homebuilding, and always check marginal wood with the bypass feature.  BTW, Sawstop was great to work with and very helpful after the firing.  Really responsive folks.  You will love the saw and if I didn't already have one, would buy one is a minute.  No regrets on the purchase.    

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On 12/28/2018 at 10:48 AM, gee-dub said:

Mine was from cutting some anti-static UHMW material that I had scrounged from some electronics packaging at work.  Boy, I sure saved money by scrounging that waste material didn't I !?!  The moment I heard the ker-plunk I realized what I had done. Doh!

When you buy a Saw Stop, you buy into the methodology of using one.  If you use it like a tablesaw that does not have the flesh-sensing technology, it could get expensive.  After that learning experience I now use override if I have any question about a false triggering.  If I am making multiple cuts I use override to test the procedure and then run normally -or- in override as the indications dictate.

As short sited as it is, I do use my table saw like a tool including some pucker cuts. I would definitely break the bank with new blades and carriages.

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I had to recut my tapering sled to fit the new saw and it has sandpaper glued into it to secure the work piece. Thankfully I ran it through in bypass mode. Forgot to check if it flashed the code that it would have activated the brake or not. Not sure if sandpaper is conductive or not but didn't want to take the chance.

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1 hour ago, Eric Anderson said:

I had my saw about 5 years before an accidental firing.  

5 years is impressive. I made it to day 2! 

I am really upset with Sawstop. I ordered the Professional Series table saw with the Industrial mobile base and the fold down outfeed table.

That is not a winning combination. The outfeed table cannot fold flat against the saw and when it is collapsed it sits proud of the table, so you can't move the fence. 

Naturally I called them on this and since I bought it as part of an employee purchase program (I work for a distributer) they will not take a return of any kind. All I wanted was to exchange the industrial mobile base for the professional base. I didn't even expect a refund of the $100 price difference between the 2. 

I could not be more disappointed with that outcome. I told them that at the very least the person who took the order should've warned me about this combo as the CSR I spoke too said it's a known issue. And even more frustrating is that this combo could EASILY work fine with some very simple design changes. 

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Yikes, that is really frustrating. I had only heard positive things about their customer service and product design before this. Their online saw builder also shows the ICS base and folding outfeed as compatible. Did you hear back about the cartridge?

 

Will your employer let you swap out the bases? Are the design changes needed to make it work something you can easily modify yourself?

 

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Howdy @JohnG

Yes, like you I had heard only positives about their CS. And, to tell the truth, the CSR was kind and empathetic. It's the policy that stinks.

With the cartridge I'm not expecting anything because that mistake was on me. I chalk that up to a learning curve.

As to design changes to the outfeed table, I haven't sat down with it. I looked at once and decided it probably wouldn't be an easy modification.

I'll try and post some pictures of why I say that. But that thing was deceptively difficult to assemble and idk if I can modify it to fit. And if I can I'll still be resentful that I have to do so with a brand new product. But I don't think I can even do it in the first place. 

I just filled out their feedback form for the second time in which I started my disappointment with this situation. This is my hail Mary and I don't expect anything to happen. The first time I filled it out to let them know about this situation was completely ignored.

I know that I'm one tiny little hobbiest and to them I'm not worth a second thought but man this really stinks. I bought that very expensive outfeed table FOR THE FACT THAT IT FOLDS DOWN and to not be able to use the saw at all with it folded down is beyond infuriating. I'll probably end up selling it, or the base. And I like the industrial base because it allows you to easily move the saw in any direction. The other base allows back and forth but side to side by is not so simple. Anyway, sorry to rant here. The more I think about this the more ticked off I get.

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Ok. Here are two pics. The problem is that the outfeed table doesn't fit around the rear wheels. And at first I thought I could just re drill and move those pieces to clear the wheel but the roller that they hold is a fixed width and there's no room to move them further to the side. They are already as far to the sides as they can go. If they simply made shorter rollers for these pieces, this problem doesn't exist. So now I'm thinking about switching positions with the double-bars that hold the roller and the single bar that sits next to them. Unsure if thats a viable solution or not. And I can't lower the outfeed table because the brackets that secure it are already riding on the rear rail bracket. There are no wagers to remove or anything. It's as low as it'll go.

IMG_20190108_174334354.jpg

IMG_20190108_174346025.jpg

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Final thought. I guess I could remove the second bar completely. That would also mean I'd lose the roller and have a big honking gap between the end bars and the next bar. But that is the only practical solution that I can see. 

Might try that as soon as it warms up a tad. We went from 45 degrees on Saturday to dang cold today. (St Paul Minnesota) So I'm not in the shop tonight.

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Does the table register on those square tubes that stick up into your fence space? Is there any chance of cutting those tubes lower?

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1 minute ago, applejackson said:

Might try that as soon as it warms up a tad. We went from 45 degrees on Saturday to dang cold today. (St Paul Minnesota) So I'm not in the shop tonight.

The cold isn't so bad but that wind is killing me.

Hate to see that something so simple is causing a problem. I hope that i'm not fuling negative feelings but it's absured that this is happening the ICS base on the PCS is a VERY common setup. It seems silly that they oevrlooked this.

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Just now, Tpt life said:

Does the table register on those square tubes that stick up into your fence space? Is there any chance of cutting those tubes lower?

Those square tubes stick up proud of the table and that is the problem. You just read my mind. I'm going to see if I can cut them shorter if the bolt pattern will still work out.

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1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

The cold isn't so bad but that wind is killing me.

Hate to see that something so simple is causing a problem. I hope that i'm not fuling negative feelings but it's absured that this is happening the ICS base on the PCS is a VERY common setup. It seems silly that they oevrlooked this.

@Chestnut brother, you nailed it about the wind. After all the warm weather it feels like razor blades. And yeah it IS absurd. Since posting this I now have two possible solutions but it really ticks me off that I should have to come up with my own solution at all. Needless to say my opinion of the mighty SS Corp has plummeted.

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I think I have a plan. Cut the two outside tubes a few inches shorter so I can reuse one set of holes. Drill new holes as the rear most will be left  without holes to bolt to the cross members. Might drill a hole in the top of the bar and use a self tapping screw through the bottom and into the cross member below it instead of bolts. 

This might not be terribly difficult. This assumes that when the table DOES fold flat, that the tubes no longer stick up proud of the table. 

That's why I love this forum. Never a shortage of people with helpful suggestions to solve dang near any problem. I'll post as I investigate this solution and before I start cutting and drilling. Still ticks me off that I have to do this, but it is what it is. Anyway -thanks everyone for the advice.

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1 hour ago, applejackson said:

I ordered the Professional Series table saw with the Industrial mobile base and the fold down outfeed table.

That is not a winning combination. The outfeed table cannot fold flat against the saw and when it is collapsed it sits proud of the table, so you can't move the fence.

That is just one of the reasons I don't like their fold out outfeed table. I made my own that is fully supported by the saw & has no legs. The fact that the ICS base wheels extend so far past the saw base is what gives it that stability. I can put almost all my weight on the far end  & not have the saw move. 

I think that outfeed table is a real turd & wasn't well thought out at all.

2 hours ago, Eric Anderson said:

trip occurred 400 ms after startup, so the trip was not very dramatic

I tripped mine at full speed & there was no drama either, just a moderate thunk & then dead silence.

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@drzaius I would like to see your design. IDK if this platform has direct messaging but would you post a pic or two? Maybe I'll just sell this dang thing and build my own. Thanks

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1 minute ago, pkinneb said:

Could you sell the ICS mobile and buy a PCS base?

Sure. But I bought the ICS base for a reason. It allows you to easily move the saw in any direction. The other base, as I understand it, allows for front to back movement, but side to side movement is limited at best. But yes that is an option. I don't know what my final solution is going to be. I suspect I'll end up modifying the outfeed table and going that route but nothing is decided completely at this point.

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If I remember correctly, their original outside table couldn't be used with any of the mobile bases at the time, 6 maybe 7 years ago.  Makes you think their design folks need to have coffee together more often.;)

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Maybe the design team doesn't deserve coffee.

Applejackson this is disappointing to hear.  If you decide to sell your mobile base the Portamate 3550 might be a reasonable alternative.  

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10 hours ago, applejackson said:

@drzaius I would like to see your design. IDK if this platform has direct messaging but would you post a pic or two? Maybe I'll just sell this dang thing and build my own. Thanks

FYI - click on the user's name or picture, then to the right of their user name at the top, there is a button for "message." Alternatively, you can click on the little envelope at the top right of the any WTO page (just to the left of your user name) and click "Compose New" and then type in the user.

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13 hours ago, applejackson said:

@drzaius I would like to see your design. IDK if this platform has direct messaging but would you post a pic or two? Maybe I'll just sell this dang thing and build my own. Thanks

I'll get the cars out of the garage shop some time in the next couple of days & get some pics. I don't have any design drawings cause this was just a seat-of-the-pants build. I'll probably start a new thread just to avoid clogging up this one.

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I'm not a sawstop user so I'm coming out of leftfield - from what I'm seeing in the pics, would you be able to rotate the base 180 so the wheels that stick out the back are sticking out the front instead?  I'm not sure I'm seeing it correctly but it looks like the wheels on the other side of the base go out to the side ...

I'm not liking this wind either ... the cold I can deal with.  These wild swings in temp are a pain however.  I have a horse that I like to blanket if we get into single digits but when the single digits don't last more than a day it's not worth the extra effort.

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@Byrdie I hadn't thought of that. It's a good suggestion and I'll see if it's feasible.

Sawstop called me today to discuss. He explained that they don't returns of any kind because they're not a retailer.

He had a few suggestions - mainly to reverse the clamps that hold the outfeed table to the rear fence rail bracket. He said they sell that combination often and it usually isn't an issue. I find that hard to believe. He also said they know darn well it will hang up on the wheel wells and it wasn't designed to go around them. The whole call was a PR move. Needless to say it didn't go very far to assuage my frustration but it was nice to get a call I guess.

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I got my saw during the promo, but didn't want the overarm tubing or the PCS mobile base. I called SawStop  to enquire, but they couldn't do any subs & said to talk to the seller. Lee Valley gave me credit for the PCS base & ordered me an ICS base. I just paid the cost difference. 

Just off hand, I think you could rotate the base 180* without much trouble. The lift pedal may interfere, but it wouldn't stick out as far as the wheels do now.

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12 minutes ago, drzaius said:

 

Just off hand, I think you could rotate the base 180* without much trouble. The lift pedal may interfere, but it wouldn't stick out as far as the wheels do now.

It's astounding and frustrating how the dirt simplest solution is always the last one to come to me, of it even does at all. Thanks. This thread is now so far off topic, I don't know- can it be shut down?

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