Chestnut

8 Drawer Dresser In Walnut

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4 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I guess sawing veneer you can get more benefit but i just saw solid panels.

Waste doesn't matter if you are milling yourself as well. If i milled my own stuff I'd go mostly 10/4 though it doesn't take as long for me as some. I can get a 4/4 board dry in 4 months.

I went over your op again.  When you said you were going to do some veneering I took this to mean you were going to adhere the veneer to a substrate.  I missed the fact that you made (5) 1/4" solid panels.  I was unaware you could make panels that thin without a substrate.  I assume you probably aimed for 5/16" ea panel.  Do you risk the panels warping by finishing them immediately after sawing?   

This is even better than I originally thought.  To make panels that thin without substrate; via milling them from your own milled log is pretty freakin cool.

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1 hour ago, sjeff70 said:

I went over your op again.  When you said you were going to do some veneering I took this to mean you were going to adhere the veneer to a substrate.  I missed the fact that you made (5) 1/4" solid panels.  I was unaware you could make panels that thin without a substrate.  I assume you probably aimed for 5/16" ea panel.  Do you risk the panels warping by finishing them immediately after sawing?   

This is even better than I originally thought.  To make panels that thin without substrate; via milling them from your own milled log is pretty freakin cool.

I'm cutting some veneer from 2 other slabs to do matched drawer fronts. This is the part i'm most excited for.

I've done 1/4" panels a lot with quite a few different woods. These panels are 0.235" to be exact. I've done them a few ways finishing right after or letting them sit a while. The key is to make sure that the wood is at EMC so the internal MC matches the external MC. Movement is something to be conscious of but it often gets misunderstood and exaggerated. The panels will be in a groove on all 4 sides so after they are glued up the panels won't be able to warp, bow or cup. My only concern with thin panels is if someone kicks them hard.

The panels in the pictures i actually cut over a month ago and they stayed flat sitting on a shelf the whole time. I have some 1/8" slices from the bent lamination on the Morris chair that are sitting around and are still flat as the day i cut them nearly a year ago.

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50 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I'm cutting some veneer from 2 other slabs to do matched drawer fronts. This is the part i'm most excited for.

I've done 1/4" panels a lot with quite a few different woods. These panels are 0.235" to be exact. I've done them a few ways finishing right after or letting them sit a while. The key is to make sure that the wood is at EMC so the internal MC matches the external MC. Movement is something to be conscious of but it often gets misunderstood and exaggerated. The panels will be in a groove on all 4 sides so after they are glued up the panels won't be able to warp, bow or cup. My only concern with thin panels is if someone kicks them hard.

The panels in the pictures i actually cut over a month ago and they stayed flat sitting on a shelf the whole time. I have some 1/8" slices from the bent lamination on the Morris chair that are sitting around and are still flat as the day i cut them nearly a year ago.

Very nice.  Thanks for taking the time to explain/teach :)

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I got the sides glued up. I didn't want to let the panels sit much longer with finish on one side. I know they'd probably stay stable as the have for the last month. I wiped some mineral spirits on the flashier side that will face the more seen part of the room. I wanted to see how the wood was going to look with finish on as well as see how close the color will be between the air dried walnut and the commercial steamed walnut. I have no complaints. It's obviously not as vibrant but it doens't look out of place. It also helps highlight the panels which is what I'm going for. After all too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

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Here are both sides side by side.

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Next up is the vertical divider and web frames. I have a surplus of cherry off cuts from my last project so all of the secondary wood is going to be cherry. It probably seems like a waste but it's what I've got and because it's random small amounts the pieces will never make it to a future project for color match reasons. Some of the parts are reclaimed from a cherry door that was given to me. The door had a lot of sapwood in it that was disguised with a tinted finish. All of the material was right around 1.25" thick so i figured i'd resaw the parts and make the web frames a hair under 5/8" thick.

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After milling resaw and planing they ended up at 9/16ths so i lost 1/8" to the blade kerf jointing and planing. Most of the losses was because i filed at splitting the pieces down the center. My love hate relationship with the Resaw King has less hate than love at the moment.

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At the same time i milled the material for the vertical divider and walnut pieces that will end up being the fronts of the web frames. I milled the divider stock all at the same time so it's exactly the same thickness. It ended up being around 1 1/8" thick.  The center divider is going to take a fair load from the drawers and clothing so I ended up going with  double 6mm dominoes. The increased clue area is more beneficial than just going with a thicker domino especially with the forces pushing on the width of the domino. The piece of walnut is the vertical divider.

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While clamping i took extra care to make sure everything was square. This part is going to be crucial in the construction so i figured the extra care was important. I made sure not to over tighten the clamps as well and just used enough pressure to close the joint.

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Next is assumbly of the web frames. This was done with 6mm dominoes as well. I"m less concerned about the structure of these than i am for the divider. There is going to be a good long grain joint on the center divider as well as a decent long grain joint on each side panel. I also made the oversized so i can trim them down after construction. As good as i may seem i don't trust my joinery to be perfectly square here and will trim everything down after the fact on my table saw sled or maybe with the track saw and table saw. Not sure yet.

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So far i have one side complete. The bottom web frames are going to take a bit extra and different work and might be completed upon assembly of the entire carcass. This glue up is going to be stressful.

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Hey nut, that's some beautiful walnut in those panels. Not a criticism, but what drove your choice not to book match the panels?

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15 hours ago, drzaius said:

Hey nut, that's some beautiful walnut in those panels. Not a criticism, but what drove your choice not to book match the panels?

I thought i mentioned it but probably didn't explain fully. When i cut the slab up I had pith running through the pieces in places. Normally I'd avoid this at all costs but beings that it was dry and stable already i figured I'd remove and fix what i needed to with epoxy. It ended up that 2 of the crucial faces had big defects from the pith as well as deeper saw marks from blade deflection. I would have had to take the panels down to 0.2" to remove the blade marks and the pith was still iffy so i went for a slip match instead. I also cut 5 panels and ended up rejecting one that would be needed for a book match. To many factors counting against and i may regret the decision in the future but I'm happy with it so far.

I'm not entirely sure in the fine woodworking world how a slip match lands vs a book match in a situation like this. I know most prefer the book match but when the grain isn't a good mirror does the slip match work better? The figured portion points towards the front should i have had it point to the rear? Or is this all situational and creative interpretation should be the judge?

In the 2nd picture of my post above on the right side panel you can see the beginning of the pith and how much it changed to the right panel it's in between these that i rejected the panel and the backside of the left that has the large defect. I think i don't have pictures and I am trying to remember back to a couple months ago.

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27 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I'm not entirely sure in the fine woodworking world how a slip match lands vs a book match in a situation like this. I know most prefer the book match but when the grain isn't a good mirror does the slip match work better?

I am sure in a perfect world there is a desired way and then a secondary way.  In "fine" fine woodworking the woodworker is usually working with someone else money so being picky and doing a perfect grain match doesn't affect them like it might affect us hobbyist.  Some times we have to make decisions based on the thickness of our wallet not the thickness of our lumber.;)

Looking at your two sides I think I would have the sapwood that shows facing toward the front of the chest, in my mind that makes the grain flow in a nicer orientation, but that is only my opinion. 

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35 minutes ago, Chet said:

Looking at your two sides I think I would have the sapwood that shows facing toward the front of the chest, in my mind that makes the grain flow in a nicer orientation, but that is only my opinion. 

The front edge is the outside leg. So the corner of sapwood is to the front.

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Your piece is going to look different to a woodworker than it will to average Joe.  Those looking with a critical eye here are going to ask about bookmatching.  Joe Blow on the street who happens to see the piece is just going to say, "Wow!" 

I've learned to turn my critical eye off, not point out the errors - no matter how glaring, and accept the compliments on things many "woodworkers" would reject.  Build for you, not for the approval of others.

That being said, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!

Just kidding.  I think they look great and would happily put the finished piece in my bedroom.

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26 minutes ago, Byrdie said:

Your piece is going to look different to a woodworker than it will to average Joe.  Those looking with a critical eye here are going to ask about bookmatching.  Joe Blow on the street who happens to see the piece is just going to say, "Wow!" 

I've learned to turn my critical eye off, not point out the errors - no matter how glaring, and accept the compliments on things many "woodworkers" would reject.  Build for you, not for the approval of others. 

That being said, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?! 

Just kidding.  I think they look great and would happily put the finished piece in my bedroom.

I can count on 1 hand the number of people i know that aren't on this forum that know about and can recognize bookmatching. Of the handful i taught all but 1 of them what it is and how to identify it so i agree no one is going to know.

I don't want the people that know to turn off their critical eye. Maybe I'm weird but i appreciate that conversation. I can't get better if i don't see what I'm doing wrong. In this situation i know that you can't see the other side but you'll have to trust me when i say i made the best decision for the panels i had.

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2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I don't want the people that know to turn off their critical eye. Maybe I'm weird but i appreciate that conversation. I can't get better if i don't see what I'm doing wrong. In this situation i know that you can't see the other side but you'll have to trust me when i say i made the best decision for the panels i had.

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. There is little value to showing ones work if there is not honest & frank feedback on it.

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On 1/2/2019 at 3:24 PM, drzaius said:

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. There is little value to showing ones work if there is not honest & frank feedback on it.

You misunderstand me.  I never intended to imply that honest or frank feedback doesn't have value, nor did I intend to imply that one shouldn't strive to achieve the best results.  What I did intend was to say that to often we're quick to point out our failings when even satisfactory results are achieved.

To whit, I've seen plenty of wood working, including on this forum, that I *wouldn't allow in my own home.  That doesn't detract from it's quality or the effort the maker expended.  My saying so may be frank, but it adds no value to the conversation.

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On 1/2/2019 at 8:58 AM, Chestnut said:

I'm not entirely sure in the fine woodworking world how a slip match lands vs a book match in a situation like this. I know most prefer the book match but when the grain isn't a good mirror does the slip match work better? The figured portion points towards the front should i have had it point to the rear? Or is this all situational and creative interpretation should be the judge?

Material selection is one of the many phases in the design and execution of a piece allows us to show our personal taste and artistic decisions.  I have broken "the rules" on many pieces and am not apologetic . . . too late now anyway :D.  I took some heat for having a sapwood figure meet at the joint in this cabinet's top.  I also used sapwood as a design element in the front corner posts and "feet".

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It was a creative decision and I still like it . . . as mentioned; too late now anyway :lol:

I'm not saying that poor choices can't hurt a design; they certainly can.  There's a famous (infamous?) early G&G piece that was, IMHO, ruined at the bench due to material selection.

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For me, the choice (or lack thereof) of figure on the fall-front panels really fights with the lines and proportions of this piece.  Put your hand over the top half of the picture and the piece immediately takes on a more serene and balanced feel.  But, now I'm wandering . . .

Going back and looking at your end panels, I may have book matched them making the crotch figure meet in the middle but, your choice is just as valid.  I would probably position your panels with the crotch figure toward the rear creating a sort of waterfall direction toward the front/bottom.  However, you may have something different in mind and that's great.  Do you own thing.  Its part of what makes the craft fun.

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11 hours ago, Byrdie said:

To whit, I've seen plenty of wood working, including on this forum, that I *wouldn't allow in my own home.  That doesn't detract from it's quality or the effort the maker expended.  My saying so may be frank, but it adds no value to the conversation.

If we're grading off of what we'd put in our homes that's a high standard. It doesn't cover just execution and skill but also taste and opinion. There are a lot of pieces that are amazing works that are beyond what i could accomplish but aren't something i'd want to live with. I love the G&G style from a technical and historic point of view but it's a little bit much for me personally. I also love Mid century modern but it just would never fit in my house with the current aesthetic in our house.

I'm going to take it further i don't want ANYONE woodworker or not to turn off their critical eye. What we see as great could be terrible in the eyes of someone else. Or things that are critical to them we overlook.

The only think that irritates me is when i make a mistake because i didn't know better and it keeps getting rubbed in my face. I made the mistake of not easing the edges of 1 piece of furniture when i started out and didn't know better. I'll never live that down. I hear time and time again "But is it going to have sharp edges?" and then the follow up of "Why are you getting mad at me?".

@gee-dub I like the feet i think that's an interesting element. Was the heat for using sapwood or for the design element not living up to expectations or looking out of place? Also i don't see much wrong with the top, but it's risky joining certain elements of woodworking at long joints can cause elements that look like female anatomy. There was a slab table at a restaurant that Megan showed me and the first thing i saw was we... a big hole... if ya catch my drift.

So is book match the rule and anything else is braking the rule? I seem to see book match more typically than other but slip matching is also seen a lot. When i do the drawer fronts there will be 8 of them in 2 columns. Do i book match vertically in pairs with the drawer faces or book match side to side horizontally and slip match vertically. Personally i was going to book match horizontally and slip match vertically. But i don't think I'll know until i cut the slices.

*The last paragraph is confusing and probably requires a graphic.

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Slip matching tends to offer similar directionality to glossy elements. Wrong words, struggling this morning. Book matching means each half might throw light back at you from opposite directions. In other words, slip matching is not always wrong, but needs to be balanced against grain that obviously came in the same flitch. 

Personally the down turned cathedral grain catches my eye. I don’t think enough of the crotch is present to show that in the small panels. I’d have used that where more or less showed, or vertical orientation was avoided. That’s just me though. Like was said, artistic expression sometimes trumps convention. 

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Maybe i can see details the pictures don't show but there are cathedrals that point to the center. I don't know that i like cathedrals in large panels/pieces to show movement and point all in 1 direction. I know I've used them like that before and they have their place but in a large panel like this it shows too much movement. The figure thought was with the dresser being against a wall the figure would point forward away from the wall giving a feel for the direction the drawers travel. Maybe scale is off because the figure is quite large and covers nearly half the panel or rough 4" wide by 20" long. I'm not sure how I'd use that in a horizontal panel other than a drawer but it's not show stock i have far better wood for drawer fronts.

If you want to dip into composition theory from photography or similar you want to have lead lines that lead the eye in directions you want. Lines leading away or onto the next piece should be avoided. Cathedrals that point to the center of the panel will, in this case, lead the eye to the figure which will lead the eye around to the front to the drawer fronts. My plan which well is sort of hard to convey is to have the drawer fronts attempt to trap the attention on the front of the dresser and possibly lead to the top. It's fun to play with composition elements on a 3d object. You get more than a frame and 4 edges on a 2d plane.

I am 100% confidant i made the right decision with these panels.

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Drew, my intention was not to nit-pick but to fully reflect. Cathedrals point up in 99% of vertical boards as most trees taper from wider at the base. I have been trained to orient cathedrals that way...with that crotch caveat. Just letting you know that the cathedral pointed down catches my eye. Nothing more than that. 

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Your good didn't take it as nit picking just throwing out some of my more detailed thoughts.

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I can’t remember which book, but I remember reading a section about this specific question. They made the case for both slip matching and book matching in different situations. Sometimes book matching, while symmetric, can lead to a busy appearance. I’ll see if I can dig it up. Might have been an article, but I think not.

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Beautiful work so far, brother.  I love walnut sapwood.  Creams and purple gradient cathedrals in the face grain...so pretty.  

 

WTN.  Oak is for riving, not milling. :)

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