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Mark J

Haunted Jet AFS-1000B Air Filtration System

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OK, here's a problem and I am hoping that one or more of our more electrified members can offer some spark of understanding.  

Jet AFS-1000B  air filtration system purchased Black Friday 2017 will intermittently spontaneously start running at a low level.  Problem began the day after Black Friday 2018 so one day out of warranty, but I contacted Jet customer service this morning via email with attached video. 

There have been 5 episodes so far.  These are spontaneous and I have not as of yet figured out how to induce them.  Everything was off and quiet when I left the shop last night, but this morning the ghost was active.  This last episode I was able to catch on video, so now I have proof the thing is haunted.   

https://youtu.be/N69-m3CYrmo

Initially the filming was done by flashlight.  Close up shot clearly shows the squirrel cage blower spinning about 10 RPM.  The AFS-1000B is switched off and panning back without the flashlight shows the power indicator lights are off as are the room lights.  The squirrel cage then stops spinning spontaneously, and then spontaneously resumes. 

Switch on the room lights and the spinning stops.  Switch off the lights and spinning resumes.  Repeat twice more and same thing.  I then turned off the video camera and preparing to leave the shop, switched off the room lights, but the spinning did not resume. 

Note, the room lights and the AFS-1000B are on two different circuits.  All equipment in the space is switched off.  The  AFS-1000B was run for hours the night before, but was switched off at the end of the evening’s work.  The timer function was not utilized, although this behavior has been observed with and without the timer. 

Any ideas on how to exorcise this ghost?  

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Call John Constantine. Not sure what his number is or where he's located but the DC comic books say that he has experience in this area.

I have no idea. This seems quite odd my guess it's the control board somehow maybe a solder bridge?

My concern with this would be because it's spinning low revs that there is a high resistance short somewhere inside. The high resistance short could get hot and with a bunch of dust near by in a filter there might be some fire risk. Why do the lights effect it though ..... man this is weird.

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30 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Call John Constantine. Not sure what his number is or where he's located but the DC comic books say that he has experience in this area.

I have no idea. This seems quite odd my guess it's the control board somehow maybe a solder bridge?

My concern with this would be because it's spinning low revs that there is a high resistance short somewhere inside. The high resistance short could get hot and with a bunch of dust near by in a filter there might be some fire risk. Why do the lights effect it though ..... man this is weird.

 

31 minutes ago, Gary Beasley said:

Might be anything from bad grounds in your shop wiring to a short in a nearby machine.

My thoughts exactly, well not the John Constantine thing.  Possibly a sneak circuit in the house wiring, but there has to be something wrong with the Jet circuit board to allow the current to pass.  I have a call out to an electrician and still waiting on Jet.   

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I would agree that there is something amiss between the ground and neutral circuits somewhere. The first couple of things I would check would be the wire nut on the white wire inside the unit and the ground connection, as seen on the wiring diagram:

https://content.jettools.com/assets/manuals/708620B_man_EN.pdf

 

I don't know how they are doing the motor switching in the PCB, but if there is a direct link between the incoming hot and one of the motor leads, a ground/neutral issue in the shop wiring could do something like this.

 

You can get a receptacle tester for a few bucks at any of the big boxes. This may reveal a problem at the receptacle, specifically any ground/neutral issues.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-Gear-3-Wire-Receptacle-Tester-50542/206212329?cm_mmc=Shopping|G|Base|D27E|27-11_TOOLS_%26_ACCESSORIES|NA|PLA|71700000034238984|58700003943782712|92700031954542185&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjszhBRDgARIsAH8KgvcwEVc7j6pvAmHeyfiyA4u23CAGNUUJ3C2lQlbVKWv-kfCYQxUhop4aAgtuEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Damon

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Damon777 said:

You can get a receptacle tester 

That checked out OK.

20190107_125022.thumb.jpg.04c373a91bb7f3ce2dd7d0c8fe6b8bbe.jpg

And lights out

20190107_125157.thumb.jpg.b964e82d7eed0f267b47791859f35c8a.jpg

31 minutes ago, Damon777 said:

I would agree that there is something amiss between the ground and neutral circuits somewhere. The first couple of things I would check would be the wire nut on the white wire inside the unit and the ground connection, as seen on the wiring diagram:

This might be a bit beyond my skill sets so I'll wait till I hear from Jet before taking things apart.

I am also wondering if this might be related to the rain some how.  It's been wet here lately.

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That light that's next to it... can you move it further away from the fan?

My theory is you've got just enough electrical pixie bits flowing across space and time to induce a current across the motor windings.

 

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That's a thought , but why would the bits flow when the light is off?  

Still next time the ghost wakes up isolate that lightand see if it makes a difference.

For what it's worth I've had no response to the detailed email and video I sent to Jet and it's been >24 hours.  Haven't heard back from the electrician yet either.  Time to make some calls.

Edit:  My bad!  I sent the Jet email to the wrong address.  So their clock starts now.  And I got a hold of the electrician.

I'll let you know where this goes, but if any other thoughts occur to you feel free to share.

Edited by Mark J

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23 hours ago, Mark J said:

That's a thought , but why would the bits flow when the light is off?  

 

Is the light turned off at the pull chain, or at the source?  If it's the pull chain, the wire leading to the light is still hot.  If it's at the source, then I got nothing.

 

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Switched at the source.  The switch controls the circuit and all of the shop lights are on that circuit.  

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So I was able to speak with Jet techncal support today and the electrician has also come and gone.

I called Jet and got a rep who had not read my email or seen the video, but  did not think I was nuts.  In fact Jet thought it was due to the light fixtures even though nothing has changed with them since long before the Jet was installed a year ago.  The rep still felt that was a strong possibility and I got the impression Jet has seen similar problems before.  There recommendation was to put a surge suppresor on the outlet (Tripp-lite isoblok).  If that doesn't do it the next step is to replace the circuit board, but the guy didn't really think that would fix the issue.

Meanwhile the electrician came and examined the wiring and we did find that an exterior GFI that taps off the same circuit had failed (as had its weather cover).  The outlet was replaced.  We also found that a few of the circuit breakers in my panel were not entirely tightened down and those were snugged up.  

The failed GFI is interesting to me, because more and more I've begun to wonder if this hasn't been related to rainy days.  I have no idea how any of this makes electrons flow through the motor windings when they're not supposed to, but I'll give the electrician's repairs a chance.  If the problem recurrs I'll get the Isoblok.  And if that don't do it I'm back to Jet.

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A little more follow up.  So I'm sitting in the kitchen, it's quiet and my wife turns on the undercabinet lights.  Bing I hear the AFS start up.  A little experimenting to confirm it,  and yes if the undercabinets are switched on the AFS runs at a low level, but ONLY when the under cab dimmer switch is in the middle position.  And only if the overhead lights in the shop are switched off.  

Since this is now something that is repeatble I was able to confirm that it does not happen when the AFS is plugged into the adjacent circuit.  So that's my immediate and possibly final solution. 

I still don't know if this is an RF issue or a circuit issue, but I'm not sure I care enough to test a surge suppressor when I can just move the plug to a different receptacle.   I called the electrician and he's currious enough to come back next week.  

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You're luck you were in the right place at the right time. This sounds like Christmas Vacation where he can't get the Christmas lights working.

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1 hour ago, legenddc said:

You're luck you were in the right place at the right time. This sounds like Christmas Vacation where he can't get the Christmas lights working.

First thing I thought of too!

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Wow, that's wonky.

Are any of the items you mention (the AFS, undercabinet lights, and overhead shop lights) on the same circuit breaker?

Also....what type of dimmer is it? (brand name).  Is it 120V lighting, or low-voltage lighting?

I didn't see any of the indicator lights on your AFS come on when it was spinning....so I doubt it's an RF issue causing it to turn on. I'm betting there's a stray current somewhere because something is miswired.  Is there any chance that the neutral/ground connections on your dimmer switch are reversed?

 

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1 hour ago, Jfitz said:

Are any of the items you mention (the AFS, undercabinet lights, and overhead shop lights) on the same circuit breaker?

Nope.

1 hour ago, Jfitz said:

what type of dimmer is it? (brand name).  Is it 120V lighting, or low-voltage lighting?

No idea.  The bulbs are halogen.

 

1 hour ago, Jfitz said:

Is there any chance that the neutral/ground connections on your dimmer switch are reversed?

The electrician is coming back next week.

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I’m gonna guess you have current bridging to the grounding conductor inside the light loop. Maybe a staple or even a faulty dimmer. Failing dimmers are super messy. 

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