Robert Morse

So this happened today... New SawStop.

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13 minutes ago, drzaius said:

If you follow the manual, there is an order to the uncrating process that makes it super easy to put the saw on the mobile base. No straining needed.

so a couple of complications in my set up process... we don't have a paved anything going out to the shop, so deliveries, pallet trucks etc. end up in the house garage. From there, they are either uncrated and moved piece-meal, or I rent a skid-steer with forks to move the big things.  In this case, I had to move the parts down to the shop and moved the saw body on a hand truck, because there's no way to roll a mobile base over the uneven ground and gravel. Also, my recollection of the ICS mobile base instructions is that you need to lift and lower it into the base, they call for 4 people, one on each corner. Pretty sure I can do it with 2. :)

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7 minutes ago, pkinneb said:

FWIW I lifted my PCS onto the ICS base (prior to attaching wings) by myself.

Yeah, it's right on the edge of what I can safely lift/manage by myself - especially without dropping it. Better safe than sorry. 

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18 minutes ago, Robert Morse said:

Yeah, it's right on the edge of what I can safely lift/manage by myself - especially without dropping it. Better safe than sorry. 

Actually I misspoke I talked to my son and he helped me so there was two of us. 

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3 hours ago, Robert Morse said:

so a couple of complications in my set up process... we don't have a paved anything going out to the shop, so deliveries, pallet trucks etc. end up in the house garage. From there, they are either uncrated and moved piece-meal, or I rent a skid-steer with forks to move the big things.  In this case, I had to move the parts down to the shop and moved the saw body on a hand truck, because there's no way to roll a mobile base over the uneven ground and gravel. Also, my recollection of the ICS mobile base instructions is that you need to lift and lower it into the base, they call for 4 people, one on each corner. Pretty sure I can do it with 2. :)

Ah, that makes sense. I had to put my PCS on the ICS base after the fact because the base had to be ordered in. I think 2 strong people could do it (before putting the wings on). I didn't even try because I have a little hand held electric hoist that worked great. You will really like that ICS base. It seemed like a lot of money at the time, but I've not shed a single tear over spending it.

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On 1/13/2019 at 7:40 PM, Robert Morse said:

I've been using a PM2000 with 30" fence. 

Thanks for the info.  The PM2000 is way higher up the food chain than my saw.   If you are willing to make the changeover from that saw I should stop hem-hawing around and just do it too. 

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On 1/18/2019 at 3:31 PM, drzaius said:

You will really like that ICS base. It seemed like a lot of money at the time, but I've not shed a single tear over spending it.

+1 to that. The biggest difference that I can tell in the ICS base over the PCS is that the ICS allows you to move it any direction easily, where I think the PCS mainly allows back and forth, but side to side movement is more difficult.

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 5:53 PM, chashint said:

Thanks for the info.  The PM2000 is way higher up the food chain than my saw.   If you are willing to make the changeover from that saw I should stop hem-hawing around and just do it too. 

I type all day for my day job - the flesh-sensing is just a cheap insurance policy.  However, I loved the PM2000, and all else being equal, I would have kept it.  The PCS is very well made, but the PM2000 has a slightly deeper table, and I loved the integrated caster system.  I don't think you can go wrong with either of these saws. 

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47 minutes ago, Robert Morse said:

The only thing I didn't like in the assembly process was the installation of the 52" table -

The other thing I didn't like about the 52" table was the 52" table.  I found the design and construction lackluster - it sagged and was not really very flat, and I also had a hard time adjusting the far end to where I wanted it.  I went through their customer service and told them how much out of flat it was (I forget how much, but it was pretty huge) so they sent me a new one. It was pretty much the same so  I decided to just make my own with sturdier supports.

 

Glad you're up and running with it!!  Enjoy it!

 

 

 

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As far as I'm concerned, the wooden extension tables that SawStop provides are strictly throw away items. The construction is light & flimsy, & they just are not straight. I would much rather them sell the fence with no tables at all & then offer a high quality table for those that don't want to build their own.

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3 hours ago, Robert Morse said:

I type all day for my day job - the flesh-sensing is just a cheap insurance policy.  However, I loved the PM2000, and all else being equal, I would have kept it.  The PCS is very well made, but the PM2000 has a slightly deeper table, and I loved the integrated caster system.  I don't think you can go wrong with either of these saws. 

Even though my saw 'was' just a 13 year old Delta hybrid It has served me well and I have really enjoyed using it.  After much gnashing of teeth I listed it on the Facebook market last night and this morning it went to live with a new owner. 

I will be heading over ro Rockler later today or tomorrow to buy a 3hp PCS.   

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Wanna drive that PM2000 to my house? I got really annoyed last night at not having a dedicated dado saw. I hate having to figure out order of operations and then determine how I'm going to cut what and when this is my hobby not my job.

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Congratulations on the saw, I have the 3hp, PCs, and love it. You mentioned that you put a wwII Sawstop Verson blade on it, what blade is that ?, thx RJ 

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6 hours ago, Rjweb said:

Congratulations on the saw, I have the 3hp, PCs, and love it. You mentioned that you put a wwII Sawstop Verson blade on it, what blade is that ?, thx RJ 

I had a WWII on my PM2000, and had a good experience, so I thought I'd try this one.  You can find more about them here: https://www.sliversmill.com/product_1594_SPECIAL_10x40T_Woodworker_II__1_8_THICK_Kerf_For_SawStop_Ta.html

 

"This blade is the same as the regular 10"x40T Woodworker II with the exception of having a slightly larger outside diameter which works well with SawStop's automatic brake design. More sharpenings are possible with these longer tipped teeth."

6 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Wanna drive that PM2000 to my house? I got really annoyed last night at not having a dedicated dado saw. I hate having to figure out order of operations and then determine how I'm going to cut what and when this is my hobby not my job.

That's a bit out of the way... :)

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9 hours ago, Jfitz said:

The other thing I didn't like about the 52" table was the 52" table.  I found the design and construction lackluster - it sagged and was not really very flat, and I also had a hard time adjusting the far end to where I wanted it.  I went through their customer service and told them how much out of flat it was (I forget how much, but it was pretty huge) so they sent me a new one. It was pretty much the same so  I decided to just make my own with sturdier supports.

 

Glad you're up and running with it!!  Enjoy it!

 

 

 

Yeah, that's about where I'm at too... I'll get on that right after a sled, outfeed table, an under-wing cabinet, and maybe a couple of other cabinets around the shop.   

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I’ll add that the table surface isn’t bad and can be reused with a decent under- structure and mounting method. Sawstop’s choice of soft wood for the frame is only part of the design‘s weak points. All are curable with a rebuild.

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22 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Wanna drive that PM2000 to my house? I got really annoyed last night at not having a dedicated dado saw. I hate having to figure out order of operations and then determine how I'm going to cut what and when this is my hobby not my job.

You're in Minnesota, right?  If you were about half as far, we could meet in the middle. :) 

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1 hour ago, Robert Morse said:

You're in Minnesota, right?  If you were about half as far, we could meet in the middle. :) 

Man i wish. For the cost of the gas and time to do the drive I'd be far better off to just buy a new one (i don't really need duplicates of the accessories provided.). I wish you luck in finding a buyer though. Shouldn't be too hard. The price you are charging is quite fair less than some saws I've seen locally in far FAR rougher shape.

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9 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Man i wish. For the cost of the gas and time to do the drive I'd be far better off to just buy a new one (i don't really need duplicates of the accessories provided.). I wish you luck in finding a buyer though. Shouldn't be too hard. The price you are charging is quite fair less than some saws I've seen locally in far FAR rougher shape.

Thanks - I'm hoping it goes quickly. 

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On 1/22/2019 at 11:48 AM, gee-dub said:

I’ll add that the table surface isn’t bad and can be reused with a decent under- structure and mounting method. Sawstop’s choice of soft wood for the frame is only part of the design‘s weak points. All are curable with a rebuild.

@gee-dub - I have seen this criticism from you and several others - that the extension table is not 100% perfectly co-planer with the cast iron table. 

It got me worried that I was going to have to move heaven and earth to get it aligned properly on my new SS. 

And then something occurred to me - and I ask this with the utmost respect, and I am honestly wondering: 

How much does it really matter if the extension table is a few 1/1000"  higher or lower than the cast iron table? 

Obviously, I am not talking about it being so far out of whack that it is immediately noticeable to the naked eye, or so bad that it affects or impedes the fence's ability to slide back and forth, or having a noticeable amount of sag. Instead, I am talking about trying to get it dialed in as perfectly as you would expect to get the cast iron wing to be co-planer to the cast iron table for example. 

Does the extension table really need to be as accurate and have as little margin for error as the fence-to-miter-slot or miter-slot-to-blade?

For those, I would surmise that the answer is YES, that a few thousandths of an inch in either direction really DO matter and can have significant impact on your cut quality. But when I think about the extension table, it doesn't seem to me like it needs to be dialed in nearly as perfectly - I guess mainly because the work piece is resting on the cast iron for the most part. 

Am I nuts here? 

 

thx...

 

PS I am also going to tag @Chestnut here for his opinion. I appreciate everyone in this forum, but you are  the two that I have interacted with the most and I value your opinions greatly. Cheers. 

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I would agree that having the extension tables perfectly co planer isn't probably a big deal because as you mention there is a good portion on the cast iron table.  However you need it as close as possible and if you have a difference of 1/1000" it is fine.   It's a table saw wing not the space shuttle. 

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I'd want my extension table to be if anything  a thou below the cast iron. I have mine set so that the fence doesn't hang going either direction but it does make a bump sound which i feel is unavoidable. I wouldn't want it to lift up on anything being feed through. This is more critical on the right of the blade imo with it being the typical fence side any shifting of a work piece could increase kickback chance but unless the result is drastic it's not terribly concerning.

I don't have a 52" nor do i know much about the complaints that people have had with the saw stop tables. Most of the critical joinery work i do is to the left of the blade but that's because most miter gauges are set up to be on that side, and i have the right side of my saw against the wall. The main reason a significant sag in the extension table would bother me is that i wouldn't be able to utilize that surface to check how flat something was or if it rocked and needed adjustment like a drawer or something. If I'm going to use a significant amount of space for a table top i want it to be useful.

Part of me wonders if this is one of the methods used to reduce cost for the PCS version of the saw and try and steer people to the ICS version? The ICS looks like it has a stamped steel extension table. Maybe that is just appearance because it has a high gloss finish. Not sure I'd like a high gloss finish but it's saw stop and they are shooting for eye catchy aesthetics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

Does the SS not have a built in arbor lock for blade changes? My saw has a button so you only need 1 wrench to change a blade...

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