Robert Morse

So this happened today... New SawStop.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, applejackson said:

How much does it really matter if the extension table is a few 1/1000"  higher or lower than the cast iron table? 

A few thou doesn't seem like it would matter much, but mine's 1/8" to 1/4" low at the far right edge... I think that's enough to show on some joinery (mitered corners perhaps?), if you're muscling a long piece across the table. Plus, it was expensive, and I'd just like to know it's RIGHT. at some point down the road, i'll probably make a new table, and drill my own holes in the side, so I KNOW it's right. 

5 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Does the SS not have a built in arbor lock for blade changes? My saw has a button so you only need 1 wrench to change a blade...

No, and I should have called that out on my "what's different"... 2 wrenches are needed for blade changes.  On the plus side though, I feel like my big ol' paws can get into the throat area easier on the SawStop.  Is it part of an attempt to upsell? Hard to say - I sorta feel like this is an integration issue where they either sub-out the table to someone else to make, or the jigs for drilling the holes are out of alignment, full of chips or something. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

 

Part of me wonders if this is one of the methods used to reduce cost for the PCS version of the saw and try and steer people to the ICS version? The ICS looks like it has a stamped steel extension table. Maybe that is just appearance because it has a high gloss finish. Not sure I'd like a high gloss finish but it's saw stop and they are shooting for eye catchy aesthetics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

Does the SS not have a built in arbor lock for blade changes? My saw has a button so you only need 1 wrench to change a blade...

Yep it's just a glossy finish and night stamped steel. The contractor saw has stamped wings on it, though they have the name or logo worked in.

No there isn't an arbor lock. It's still a two wrench procedure to change the blade. The wenches are identical, each has one open end and one closed, but yeah it's not as nice or convenient as a push button lock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have mine set so I can run a card scraper across either way & not have it catch, but it doesn't need to be that close. As @Chestnut says, having the extension just a hair low is fine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Robert Morse said:

A few thou doesn't seem like it would matter much, but mine's 1/8" to 1/4" low at the far right edge... I think that's enough to show on some joinery (mitered corners perhaps?), if you're muscling a long piece across the table. Plus, it was expensive, and I'd just like to know it's RIGHT. at some point down the road, i'll probably make a new table, and drill my own holes in the side, so I KNOW it's right. 

No, and I should have called that out on my "what's different"... 2 wrenches are needed for blade changes.  On the plus side though, I feel like my big ol' paws can get into the throat area easier on the SawStop.  Is it part of an attempt to upsell? Hard to say - I sorta feel like this is an integration issue where they either sub-out the table to someone else to make, or the jigs for drilling the holes are out of alignment, full of chips or something.  

Is there not enough slop in the holes to make sure that everything is all co-planer? I guess if it's going to be off low is better than high. I dind't think about miters... don't do them, well ever, but that would make them a bit more difficult.

I think they make the insert hole bigger so it's easier to get at the brake cartridge? Personally I'd rather that hole be small i want to reference the cast iron table not the insert plate. I have less faith in how accurate and flat the insert is vs machined cast iron. My plates are a hair lower than the table so when i cut tenons and joinery I'm always referencing the cast iron table. I also have small hands so minimizing the insert size is a non-issue for me.

1 hour ago, applejackson said:

Yep it's just a glossy finish and night stamped steel. The contractor saw has stamped wings on it, though they have the name or logo worked in.

No there isn't an arbor lock. It's still a two wrench procedure to change the blade. The wenches are identical, each has one open end and one closed, but yeah it's not as nice or convenient as a push button lock. 

Wonder why they went glossy? Did they not realize it was going to get scratched all to heck instantly? I also wonder if powermatic or JPW has a patent on the lock. It's a super nice feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Is there not enough slop in the holes to make sure that everything is all co-planer? <snip>

I think they make the insert hole bigger so it's easier to get at the brake cartridge? Personally I'd rather that hole be small i want to reference the cast iron table not the insert plate. I have less faith in how accurate and flat the insert is vs machined cast iron. <snip>

Enough slop in the holes? Not on mine there isn't.  Something I'll address when/if I make a new table. 

In regards to the insert plate, I totally agree, but i was able to reference the cast iron top with a 6" combo square to validate flatness, with no insert in place.  So that worked OK for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll initially agree that a hair low may be acceptable but never high. 

On the other hand there are too many ways to bring the wings in to plane with the top that it should be necessary.  I am often alone when working, that includes setting tools up, and so I've had to devise more than one limited hands trick to accomplish tasks like these.  When I was setting up the wings on my table (contractor) saw I wasn't paying attention the first time and they were way off.  My solution was to take my 48" steel straight edge and clamp it, on edge, to the cast iron top.  I then brought the stamped steel wings up to level against the underside of the rule.  Repeated 3 times - once for the rear edge and twice to complete both edges of the opposite wing.  I have not had to correct since.  There are some other things I need to improve but none of the effect correctness of cut or operation of the saw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have mine up and running too.   The blade / miter slot alignment was less than 0.002" out on my saw.   The fence needed a little tweak to be parallel to the miter slot.    I have the 36" rails and had no issues with the side table alignments.   I did have to adjust the cartridge to the travel limit to set it close enough to the blade (40 tooth #1 grind WWII).   The saw is much louder than the old saw.   When the old saw was running all you heard was the whirring blade, the PCS is quite loud by comparison.    Not a complaint, it is what it is.     A couple weeks ago I got a standalone Kreg router table and the PCS is larger than the old saw, so I have been doing the tool rearrangeritis shuffle today.   I am going to try out sharing having the work table pull double duty as the outfeed table, not sure how that's going to workout for me, but the router table has to go someplace and there's only so much floor space available.  

IMG_1931.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2019 at 12:02 PM, Robert Morse said:

 

Some observations:

  • The 3hp PCS motor is noticeably louder than the 3hp PM2000 when running. I don't mean this as a gripe, but it was the first thing I noticed when I turned it on for the first time.  The PM2000 motor has a lower tone and is definitely quieter.  I'm not sure if this is a function of the thickness of the cabinets, or just characteristic of the motors.

 

31 minutes ago, chashint said:

 The saw is much louder than the old saw.   When the old saw was running all you heard was the whirring blade, the PCS is quite loud by comparison.    Not a complaint, it is what it is.    

1 comment about it being louder, yeah ok compared to a pm2000, 2 people saying it's louder makes me curious? Did it seem louder with the same blade? I just find this interesting and would like to understand why. I wonder if the brake that close to the blade makes noise or something.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting discussion over the extension table. As I recall Marc has a video that talks about the ACTUAL TABLE of his current PM2000 saw being out of flat by a few thou, and not finding it to be a problem.

And what is all this 'arbor lock' talk?? My old saw just has a nut & cup washer. I pinch the blade with my fingers while using the wrench in my opposite hand. If I can't loosen the nut without blocking the blade or using a second wrench, its waaaayy too tight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

 

1 comment about it being louder, yeah ok compared to a pm2000, 2 people saying it's louder makes me curious? Did it seem louder with the same blade? I just find this interesting and would like to understand why. I wonder if the brake that close to the blade makes noise or something.

Different arrangement of the dust shroud and the brake cartridge could certainly affect it, but different motors, even of the same brand, can sound different, too.

I don't know the belt arrangement for either - perhaps a different number of idler pulleys?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

 

1 comment about it being louder, yeah ok compared to a pm2000, 2 people saying it's louder makes me curious? Did it seem louder with the same blade? I just find this interesting and would like to understand why. I wonder if the brake that close to the blade makes noise or something.

I found that interesting becuase when I went from my PM66 to the PCS I thought it was much quieter and smother LOL. In my case same blades full kerf Frued's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, pkinneb said:

I found that interesting becuase when I went from my PM66 to the PCS I thought it was much quieter and smother LOL. In my case same blades full kerf Frued's

I think enough of your comments about the PM66s have convinced me that i don't want one. I think when i get my 2nd i'm going to either go new or hope that a PM2000 or PM1000 hits the used market near by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I think enough of your comments about the PM66s have convinced me that i don't want one. I think when i get my 2nd i'm going to either go new or hope that a PM2000 or PM1000 hits the used market near by.

Don't get me wrong it was a great saw but like a lot of things improvements have been made over the years and while my SS may not last as long (who knows) its definitely got some features I would miss if it went away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am using the same blade as before, Woodworker 2 40 tooth #1 grind.   I am not sure why the SS is louder, besides the brake cartridge being very close to the blade there are two drive belts and the dust shroud.  The other saw was just an open cabinet.   I don't know if I would have thought about saying anything about it being louder if the OP had not mentioned it, while not excessive it is noticeably louder.   I know I have only had it a day or so but hearing it in my own environment and it being louder would not deter me from making the purchase again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chashint said:

  I know I have only had it a day or so but hearing it in my own environment and it being louder would not deter me from making the purchase again. 

Not my intention with the comment. Just something that is interesting. There is a lot of air moving around so it makes me wonder if the effect is similar to that of an air raid siren. I know my WWII is louder than a son of a B compared to the Freud blades i use because of this effect.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, chashint - How loud is your PCS without a blade? That would isolate the saw mechanism noise vs blade induced noise. With the stops near the blade, it could be contributing heavily to the noise. I would be curious to know what it is like without the blade.

Interesting that you are using the WW2 option 1 blade. I have one and love it. It rips so much better than the standard blade while still crosscutting adequately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2019 at 9:40 AM, Chestnut said:

Not my intention with the comment. Just something that is interesting. There is a lot of air moving around so it makes me wonder if the effect is similar to that of an air raid siren. I know my WWII is louder than a son of a B compared to the Freud blades i use because of this effect.

It's just conversation about a machine, no offenses taken here at all.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2019 at 12:10 PM, Robby W said:

Hi, chashint - How loud is your PCS without a blade? That would isolate the saw mechanism noise vs blade induced noise. With the stops near the blade, it could be contributing heavily to the noise. I would be curious to know what it is like without the blade.

Interesting that you are using the WW2 option 1 blade. I have one and love it. It rips so much better than the standard blade while still crosscutting adequately.

I will check this soonish and let you know.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My driver for buying the SawStop was the unique safety feature.   The old saw was very well aligned and cut great.  I really didn't think I could ask for anything more from a user experience perspective.    Well, after using the new saw for a day or two I will now say I was wrong about that.   Everything about using this saw just feels better, smoother, more substantial, and even the 3hp is easily noticeable.     Now that I have made the leap there is no buyers remorse for me at all, sorta wish I had done it sooner.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of a brake that hits the edge of the blade and ruins it, why not make a system like the disc brakes on a vehicle- pads come in from the side to stop the blade? Curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bankstick said:

Instead of a brake that hits the edge of the blade and ruins it, why not make a system like the disc brakes on a vehicle- pads come in from the side to stop the blade? Curious.

Because that would still shred you. The brake hitting the cutting teeth is what causes the inertia to lever the blade straight down. The physics is better that way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep wondering if the Reax system on the Bosch saw wouldn't have proved a better technology.  Maybe when the SawStop patent is finally out we'll see more from Bosch.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is high-speed footage of a SS brake activation. The retraction of the blade is slow, compared to the rotation stopping so suddenly that the blade warps. As @Tpt life mentioned, that is the energy redirected into retracting the blade.

The Bosch saw used an explosive cartridge to retract the blade without stopping it. Makes sense in a low-mass jobsite saw, not so much in a heavy cabinet saw.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 24 Guests (See full list)

  • Forum Statistics

    27,395
    Total Topics
    364,884
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    20,612
    Total Members
    1,529
    Most Online
    Josh F
    Newest Member
    Josh F
    Joined